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| Care Health and wellness for those with spinal cord injury and related disabilities |
| View Poll Results: Do you use clean or sterile intermittent catheterization? I use | |||
| Clean intermittent catheterization (new catheter) |
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27 | 36.00% |
| Clean intermiettent catheterization (re-use silicone coat) |
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16 | 21.33% |
| Clean intermittent catheterization (re-use hydrophilic coat) |
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0 | 0% |
| Clean intermittent cathetherization (other type) |
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2 | 2.67% |
| Sterile intermittent catheterization (hydrophilic coat) |
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11 | 14.67% |
| Sterile intermittent catheterization (silicone coat) |
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1 | 1.33% |
| Sterile intermittent cathetherization (other) |
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6 | 8.00% |
| Indwelling urethral catheter (foley) |
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5 | 6.67% |
| Indwelling suprapubic catheter (foley) |
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4 | 5.33% |
| Mitrafanoff or other catheterization method |
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1 | 1.33% |
| I don't use urinary catheters. |
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2 | 2.67% |
| Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#1 |
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Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New Brunswick, NJ, USA
Posts: 37,988
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Intermittent Catheterization: Clean versus Sterile?
A debate has been going on concerning reusing catheters in this forum. Unfortunately, the debate involved personal criticism of members and some of the posts had to be removed. However, in my opinion, the question whether one should re-use catheters for intermittent catheterization is important and should not be discussed without data. So, I decided to restart the discussion with a literature search on the subject.
Intermittent Catheterization: Clean versus Sterile Wise Young, Ph.D., M.D. 16 October 2007 The History of Urinary Bladder Catheterization Restrictions of urine flow have been a bain of humankind for many years. When one cannot pee, one dies. Therefore, many civilizations had developed solutions for this problem. Hollow tubes made of natural plant stems were used to evacuate urine or stones from the bladder, to manage urethral strictures, and to instill medicines into the bladder in China. In ancient Greek and then subsequently Roman times, urethral catheters were made of bronze and may be straight and curved. Around 1020 AD, the Persian philosopher Avicenna described uroscopy, to inspect urine and advised physicians to catheterize gently. In 1752, Benjamin Franklin described a flexible silver catheter that he had designed for his older brother. Modern catheters can probably be dated to 1839, when Charles Goodyear used vulcanized rubber to make a straight red rubber catheter with a side-port near the tip. This device, called the straight catheter, probably has saved more lives than any other medical device in the world. With relatively few and small modifications, this catheter is still very much in use today, including even the red color of the rubber catheter. The modifications of the catheter have been quite subtle but it is surprising how far back the history of urinary catheters goes. In the 1850's, a French instrument manufacturer by the name of Joseph Charriérre developed a sizing system for catheters that is still being used today and why catheter size is expressed by a number followed by “french”. The smallest size is a third of a mm diameter and increased in multiples of 3. Around 1860, August Mercier developed a bent tip which he called the coudé (french for elbow). In the beginning, catheters were just taped in place. Various doctors had made balloon catheters but these were not widely used until 1936 when Federic E. Foley patented a one-piece latex-self-retaining catheter that bears his name. In the 1980's, silicone catheters were introduced with much lower friction and could be reused. The silicone catheters have a smoother surface and causes less irritation of the urethra. Rubber catheters had to be used with lubricants. Silicone catheters have one additional advantage. With repeated uses, many people develop allergies to latex or rubber. Silicone catheters avoided this problem. In 1981, Wu, et al. (1981) described a reusable sterilizable catheter with a rubber balloon, ushering in the modern age of reusable catheters. Other materials besides rubber and silicone of course have been used. Indwelling versus Intermittent Catheterization In the 1960's, most patients with spinal cord injury and neurogenic bladders used an indwelling catheter, called a foley, to drain urine from the bladder. Indwelling urethral catheters, however, was associated with a high incidence of urinary tract infection. Because the catheter constantly drained urine out, the bladders shrank and it was difficult to expand the volume of the bladder once it shrank. Urinary tract infection was the main cause of death of people with spinal cord injuries. At the time, the only alternative was to use the crede method which involves pressure or tapping of the bladder through the abdomen to stimulate contraction to expel the urine. However, if detrusor-sphincter dysynergia (lack of coordination between bladder contraction and sphincter relaxation) is present, this method causes significant pressure in the bladder with consequent ureteral reflux of urine into the kidney. If the urine is infected, it often cause pyelonephritis. Repeated infections lead to kidney damage. Early clinical practice recommended strict sterile or aseptic catheterization technique to avoid bacterial infection. The work of Lister had demonstrated the importance of sterility in surgical procedures and sterilization was considered to be a necessary part of catheterization. However, in 1970, jack Lapides introduced the technique of “clean intermittent catheterization”. The concept of a clean but non-sterile technique was controversial because it relied the assumption that bacteria introduced into the bladder will be diluted out by the urine and eliminated by the host defense. Fear of introducing bacteria into the urine dominated medical practice through the 1980's with physicians often prescribing antibiotics at the presence of any bacteriuria (bacteria in the urine) even with no evidence of any systemic infection, such as fever and elevated white blood counts. The technique of intermittent catheterization revolutionized bladder care for people with spinal cord injury and other causes of the neurogenic bladder. Intermittent catheterization changed solved many of the problems of indwelling urethral catheters or the crede method. In the beginning, the procedure was sterile to avoid infections. The original catheters were made of rubber (or latex) and they tended to generate friction and repeated catheterizations often irritated the urethra and required lubricating jelly during the insertion of the catheter. In the 1980's, new catheter materials made from silicone became available and caused less friction and irritation to the urethra. Due to the expense of catheters, many people reused their catheters after washing them. Sterile versus Clean Several studies reported that clean intermittent catheterization (CIC) is just as safe as “sterile” intermittent catheterization. In 1982, Maynard & Diokno (1982) reviewed charts of 65 patients discharged between 1972-1977 and found 54 who used CIC. These 54 patients had an average followup of 3.7 years during which they had the following reported complications: nephrolithiasis (3), cystolithiasis (3), epididymitis (4), urinary tract infection (12). No patient had hydronephrosis or radiographic pyelonephritis. Maynard & Diokno concluded that CIC “appears to be a safe and satisfactory alternative to long-term management of the neurogenic bladder of selected spinal cord injury patients, since the incidence of serious renal complications is low.” Maynard and Diokno (1984) subsequently reported a prospective study of 50 patients that had CIC randomized to groups that received or did not receive a prophylactic antibacterial preparation. The groups were further divided into subgroups that received definitive antibiotics for bacteriuria or antibiotics given for clinically symptomatic infections. While antibacterial prophylaxis significantly reduced the probabilty of laboratory detected bacteriuria, it did not significantly change the probability of clinical infection although there was a trend towards fewer clinical infections. There was no significant reduction of clinical infections in patients that were treated promptly with antibiotics for bacteriuria without clinical infection. In 1992, King, et al. compared sterile intermittent catheterization (SIC) and CIC in two groups of 23 patients. The patients were catheterized every six hours and had urine cultures. Bacteriuria (>100,000 organisms/ml) and/or fever of 100˚F were noted. A total of 28 subjects (60.9%) developed bacteriuria but there was no difference between those that received SIC or CIC. Nor were there any difference in fever and clinical infection between the two groups. In 1993, Decter, et al. recommended use of CIC for the pediatric population with spinal cord injury. Perkash and Giroux (1993) reported a study to 50 patients (36 para and 14 quad) who used CIC and were followed for 3.5 months to 6.5 years (average 22 months). Of the 50 patients, 43 (86%) developed significant bacteriuria (>10,000 colony forming units per ml), at the rate of 364 bacteriuric events per 1000 patient-day. Only 16 of the 43 patients (37%), however, developed clinical symptoms which included fever (8), chills (3), hematuria (3), and flank pain (2). Of the 50 patients, 4 (8%) required rehospitalization for urological problems. One died of questionable sepsis. Transurethral sphincterotomies were done in 15 patients (30%). Four of 7 patients that were having CIC done by others elected to discontinue and use chronic indwelling catheters. Overall, 66% of the patients elected to discontinue CIC. Perkash & Giroux (1993) concluded that CIC “is a successful long-term option to drain bladders in spinal cord injury patients who can perform catheterization independently. In 1993, a consensus conference in 1993 held by the National Institute on Disability and Rehabilitation Research concluded that “clean intermittent catheterization does not pose a greater risk of infection than sterile self-intermittent catheterization and is much more economic. However, care must be given to proper cleansing of reusable catheters.” Since that time, CIC has become the standard practice for the field and care of people with spinal cord injury. Modern use of CIC In 1995, Cardenas, et al. reviewed 179 patients who engaged in four voiding patterns: CIC, indwelling catheter (IND), external collector (EC), and voiding. They found more severe trabeculations of the bladder in patients in the EC group, compared to the CIC or IND groups. In the same year, Chai, et al. (1995) at Michigan concluded that 71% of patients complied with CIC and had lower complication rates than previously reported, concluding that CIC can “provide optimal management of lower urinary tract in spinal cord injured patients.” Gray, et al. (1995) reported that 54% of patients who do CIC experience episodic incontinence. Takeuchi, et al., (1995) observed that patients who have vesicoureteral reflux still needed corrective surgery when treated with CIC, concluding that CIC alone is not effective to control reflux but is a good treatment option when combined with surgery. Lavallee, et al. (1995) compared various methods, including hydrogen peroxide, vinegar, dishwashing detergent, and tap water to clean catheters that had been contaminated with Pseudomonas aeruginosa and Escherichia coli. They found that rising and drying catheters immediately after use was most effective at reducing bacteria to very near zero. Low-friction catheters are also considered desirable. Waller, et al. (1995) studied 30 patients who used disposable low-friction catheters for 5-9 years, showing that the catheters (after tap water soaking) had 10 times less friction than a regular catheter with jelly. Of 30 patients, 12 (40%) maintained sterile, 18 had bacteriuria of which only 4 had episodes of urinary sepsis and chronic infection. Six men had occasional insertion difficulties and developed strictures. Use of the catheter seems to reduce the incidence of urethral trauma. Singh & Thomas (1997) subsequently pointed out the difficulties of managing female tetraplegics with CIC and pointed out that many patients required indwelling catheters even though patients that had CIC fared better. By 1997, Sylora, et al. reported that CIC through a mitrofanoff canal is a useful option, particularly for patients with quadriplegia to carry out CIC through the belly button. Van Hala, et al., (1997) surveyed 165 patients and found that only 2% used sterile catheterization and 98% used CIC. Giannantoni, et al. (1998) reported that CIC is superior for preventing upper urinary tract disease, compared to those who used tapping or abdomenal straining with vesicoureteral reflux. Weld & Dmoshowski (2000) studied 316 patients with spinal cord injury and found 398 complications, 236 of which occurred in 61 of 114 patients who had chronic urethral catheterization, 57 in 25 of 92 patients who do CIC, 57 in 24 of 74 patients who voided spontaneously, and 48 in 18 of 36 patients who had suprapubic catheters. In other words, 53% of patients with chronic indwelling catheters, 27% of patients who use CIC, 32% of spontaneous voiders, and 50% of patients who use suprapubic catheters have complications. Those who use CIC had the lowest complication rate. Weld, et al. (2000) also reported that 6.2% of those who use indwelling catheters had proteinuria, compared to 1% of those who use CIC, 1.3% in those who spontaneously void. Overseas Use of Intermittent Catheterization CIC has become the international standard of bladder care after spinal cord injury. In 2002, Biering-Sorenson concluded that suprapubic cystotomy drainage in patients is preferred to that of indwelling urethral catheters. In 2004, Generao, et al. at UC Davis followed 42 children with spinal cord injury for up to 15 years and found that 40 of 42 of these patients use CIC and 37 use anti-spasmodics. No patient had reflux, hydronephrosis, or renal scarring. A majority had “safe bladder capacity”. He concluded that CIC and anti-spasmodics prevent upper tract damage and this was the optimal approach to handling bladder complications of spinal cord injury. The cost of catheters may have discouraged use of intermittent catheterization in countries around the world and encouraged the use of chronic indwelling urethral catheterization. For example, while South Korea adopted the U.S. practice of CIC (Oh, et al., 2005), doctors in Japan have been less willing to use intermittent catheterization. For example, Kitahara, et al. (2006) surveyed urological management of spnal cord injury in Japan, finding that fewer doctors used intermittent catheterization than in the United States. In third world countries, the cost of catheters is prohibitive and extreme examples of catheters reuse have been reported. For example, in India and China, there has been no choice. The average patient must use CIC or chronic indwelling catheters. In 2004, Kovindha, et al. {Kovindha, 2004 #24277} from Chiang Mai in Thailand assessed 28 men with spinal cord injury who used indwelling catheterize during the acute phase and then performed self-catheterization with a silicone catheter. According to the study, the 26 men re-used each catheter for an average of 3 years (1-7 years). During this period, they had the following complications (number of complaints): urethral bleeding (3), episodes of pus per urethra (5), epididymitis (5), passing of stones (4), occasional foul smelly urine (18), feber and cloudy urine in the past year (10). Seventeen of the patients had ultrasonography done and four had pathological kidney findings and one had bladder calculi. Electron microscopic examination of the reused catheters revealed encrustation but no obstruction of the urine. There was however, a 20% increase in the stiffness of the catheter. It is essential, however, to point out that sterile intermittent catheterization is important for the hospital setting. Because there are so many antibiotic resistant pathological organisms in hospitals, sterile intermittent catheterization is essential in the hospital setting. It is also important to point that that some individuals are much more susceptible to urinary tract infections than others, probably for genetic reasons. Such people should use sterile intermittent catheterization. However, for the majority of people, CIC has become the standard and has reasonably low infections rates. Many studies have shown that CIC is better than chronic indwelling urethral catheters. References
Last edited by Wise Young; 10-25-2007 at 10:31 PM. |
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#2 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Somewhere - Out there
Posts: 467
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JustinB... I am very sorry. In the process of editing my response to your comment... I inadvertently wiped out your comments, which I thought were excellent. Unfortunately, I cannot restore them but will try from memory to do so.
Basically, you summarized the findings that clean intermittent catheterization is as safe as sterile intermittent catheterization except under certain special circumstances that include hospitals and people who are susceptible to infections. I agree with this summary. You also asked whether the is any evidence concerning the type of material. There is unfortunately little reliable controlled randomized trials providing information on this. I think that the difference between the different materials and coatings are not great. On the other hand, I think that such information would be very useful... I did a quick literature survey, came across additional information, and then put them in a post that follows this. I apologize for erasing your post. Wise. Last edited by Wise Young; 10-21-2007 at 05:33 PM. |
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#3 |
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Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New Brunswick, NJ, USA
Posts: 37,988
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Urinary catheters are made of several different materials:
The use of uncoated catethers is not recommended even for short-term. Latex can cause discomfort and tissue trauma, as well as allergies. Catheters come in following sizes. Each French size is a third (1/3) of a millimeter. The most common urinary catheter sizes are 16 or 18 French. Most catheters are 16” long and sizes range from 6Fr to 18 Fr. They can be coude-tipped (bent) and soft funnel-tipped. The catheters may have various types of coating. For example, hydrophilic and teflon coatings are particularly smooth and provide low-friction surfaces. Table 1. Sizes of catheters Code:
Diameters French Gauge Inner Outer 1 27 0.1 mm 0.4 mm 2 23 0.3 mm 0.6 mm 3 20 0.5 mm 0.9 mm 3.5 18 0.6 mm 1.2 mm 4 18 0.6 mm 1.2 mm 5 16 0.7 mm 1.7 mm 6 13 1.3 mm 2.4 mm 9 11 1.6 mm 3.2 mm 12 4.0 mm 14 4.7 mm 16 5.3 mm 18 6.0 mm 20 6.7 mm 22 7.4 mm 24 8.0 mm 26 8.7 mm 28 9.4 mm 30 10.0 mm 32 10.7 mm 34 11.3 mm 36 12.0 mm 38 12.7 mm 40 13.4 mm 42 14.0 mm 46 16.0 mm The following solutions should not be used routinely in people with chronic spinal cord injury due to irritation of bladder and urethra or because they are ineffective:
Catheter-associated infections are the most common complication of spinal cord injury. The risk of an infection with routine catheterization is 1-2% per procedure. The risk of an infection with an indwelling catheter is 5% per day accumulating (Tambyah, et al., 2002). Each infection increases length of stay by 5-6 days. The following practices reduce catheter-induced urinary tract infection:
The attachment is from the National Health Service in Scotland. References Cited
Last edited by Wise Young; 10-21-2007 at 05:35 PM. |
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#4 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,699
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Quote:
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Daniel |
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#5 | |
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Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New Brunswick, NJ, USA
Posts: 37,988
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Quote:
Surgilube or K-Y jelly is recommended by a number of sources as the lubricant to use. I know that what I posted suggested that chlorhexidine is not an effective antimicrobial and that overuse may result encourage overgrowth of resistant organisms. Using it as a lubricant is not irritating to the urethra and the jelly is sterile. The chlorhexidine is just an added bonus. In 2002, Stickler reported that chlorhexidine applied to the skin was effective in removing gram-positive bacteria but not gram negative. Analysis of antibiotic resistance patterns revealed that chlorhexidine-resistant strains are also multi-drug resistance. For that reason, chlorhexidine use for cleaning the skin and meatus prior to catheterization has been abandoned. Chlorhexadine was particularly popular in UK where it was in a product called Instillagel (a prefilled syring containing 2% lignocaine and 0.25% chlorhexidine in a sterile lubricant gel. Doherty (1999) indicated that this was the product of choice for placement of indwelling catheters. In 1995, Waller, et al. reported that long-term followups of studies of patients who used small catheters and lubricating jellies were nevertheless developing urethral complication. They studied patients who had used disposable catheters with hydrogel coating. Although the number of infections seem quite high to me, the authors concluded that patients who used hydrophilic low friction catheters do as well or better than patients using conventional catheters with chlorhexidine jelly. Note, however, that early studies suggest that chlorhexidine may be useful. For example, in 1990, Sanderon & Weissler did a direct comparisoin of chlorhexidine, soap, and antibiotics on bacteriuria in people with spinal cord injury. The patients were body washed daily with chlorhexidine soap and then chlorhexidine cream was applied to the glans daily. They found a significant reduction in bacteriuria in patients not receiving antibiotics. In patients that were being washed with soap only, there was a 74% incidence of bacteriuria. However, those that received chlorhexidine had only 60% incidence of bacteriuria. However, this did not result in significant reduction in symptomatic urine tract infections nor the absence of perineal coliforms. Wise. References
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#6 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,699
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Dr. Young, thank you for the explanation! I will continue to use the surgilube.
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Daniel |
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#7 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,653
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Hi Wise,
I'll try to make this concise but that's a tall order for me! I've read all the material that you've posted including the Urinary_Cath_COMPLETE.pdf. It appears as though most of the material is old or dated, at least preceding the invention or creation of Microcyn/Dermacyn. Microcyn/Dermacyn is the brand name of the "Super-Oxygenated Water" that you posted about a year ago or so ago. It's "supposed" to be more effective than chlorine bleach in killing bacteria but is "supposedly" harmless to human tissue. It's used for cleansing and debriding severe, raw and open decubitus ulcers, especially those in diabetics. So "should" be mild and safe enough to use on the urethral membrane. 1- Assuming this is true and for the sake of argument let's assume that "clean" versus "sterile" intermittent catheterization are equally effective. 2- I believe the below quote is in regards to the initial insertion of an indwelling catheter but nonetheless it's evidence that killing bacteria at the meatal level is somewhat effective in reducing UTIs when done at the time of the initial insertion. As with "Intermittent Catheterization". 3- "Meatal cleansing. Frequent and vigorus meatal cleansing with antiseptic solutions is unnecessary and increase risk of infection (Kunin, 1984, Garibaldi, 1980; Burke, et al., 1981, 1983). However, meatal cleansing at the time of catheterization does reduce infections. Daily bathing and showering is encouraged." 4- Does this assertion not point to the fact that the bacteria is farther into the meatus, meaning the urethra, perhaps an inch or two or three or more and that the bacteria is then being pushed into the bladder by the catheter causing bacterial colonization of the bladder or a UTI? 5- If the bacteria could be killed inside the urethra by injecting the Microcyn/Dermacyn an inch or two or three or more (assuming it's as safe and effective as "advertised") into the urethra, would this procedure not be worthy of a clinical trial? 6- Am I crazy (don't answer that!) or is the bacteria that causes UTIs located somewhere inside the urethra before it enters the bladder? Is the bacteria somehow entering the meatus, then multiplying inside the "human urethral incubator" and then being pushed into the bladder to either bacterially colonize the bladder or cause a UTI in it? 7- If we could keep the meatus, thus the urethra, free from bacteria, would this not considerably lower the incidence of bacterial colonization of the bladder and/or a UTI? 8- As you may know I've been doing this with H2O2, which is a harsh chemical, for two years now and I don't believe that I'm bacterially colonized and I know that I don't have a UTI. 9- Would you please consider setting up a clinical trial using my technique of injecting the urethra with the supposedly safe and effective Microcyn/Dermacyn to see if you're able to replicate my success in remaining bacterially uncolonized and UTI-free for two years? If you do I'll shut up about it! Thank you for your time.... and patience! Bob.
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"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria |
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#8 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
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Wise Young will probably throw this message out because it challenges his literatire review . Chart review studies are not evidence based medicine in regard to evaluating medical devices.The FDA is the expert agency and final authority in America. If the studies that Wise Young mentioned were submitted to the FDA they would be rejected.There are no studies that examine the proper cleaning method. If cleaning a catheter is safe what are the EXACT instructions that should be put on the packaging of the catheter. Federal regulations state that if you claim a medical device can be reused the instructions must be on the packaging and approved by the FDA.The personal attack Wise Young is talking about was just a respomce by a post on Jan 8 by KLD that ther are many studies that show reusing is safer than sterile which is FALSE . Does the moderator of this forum respect FDA Regulations?
SW |
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#9 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New York City
Posts: 5,383
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I've been cathing for 24 years. At first, I was doing a combination of CIC and wearing an external. About 14 years ago, I was compelled to give up the externals and do CIC exclusively as I started to experiment with the various anticholinergic meds. I didn't get a lot of UTIs, but I was good for at least 2+ per year. And there were also sporadic episodes of urethral irritation and bleeding. At this time I was using Davol red rubber catheters and then the stiffer red vinyl Dover catheters.
When I switched urologists, he prescribed LoFrics, the first brand of hydrophilics on the market, I believe. What a night and day difference they made! I've been using various hydrophilics ever since, still with great success. However, I accumulated a good deal of urethral scarring from my pre-hydrophilic days. In fact, the last time I went in for a cystoscopy, my doctor couldn't pass either the flexible or rigid cystoscope due to the thick scarring. I left the office with a steady flow of blood trickling out of my pecker from his efforts. My urologist suggested a procedure to clear away the scar tissue, but a physician friend of mine (a cardiologist) said that there was little point in having this done seeing as I was (and still am) able to easily pass the hydrophilic catheters. Hydrophilic catheters cannot be reused. If for no other reason, then, given my own N of 1 case history, I am a strong believer for single use only usage per the clearly printed instructions on the packaging of every catheter sold. Oh, and since switching over to hydrophilics, and the absence of urethral trauma associated with them, I very rarely get UTIs. It's been years since I had one. So to those that argue that we should all be reusing catheters: just because your mileage may vary doesn't mean I should have to vary mine. Last edited by stephen212; 10-23-2007 at 02:04 PM. |
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#10 |
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Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New Brunswick, NJ, USA
Posts: 37,988
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Steve,
There are only three circumstances in which we remove posts on this site. The first is if the post is spam by somebody who is unrelated to the community. The second is if the post is overtly commercial by somebody who is a legitimate member of the community and we generally give more leeway to such posts The third is when a post attacks another member and usually after it has occurred repeatedly. The policy is that if the moderator thinks that a post is violating the no-attack rule of the site, the post is moved to a private forum for review by the other moderators. If the consensus is that it is an attack and should be removed, it is removed. Otherwise, it is restored. In either case, an explanation or warning is usually posted. Can you help me put up a poll? I think that this is the time for it. We have close to 18,000 members on this site, 70% of whom have spinal cord injury. While more than half of the members have not visited us in 2007, we still probably have several thousand members who are spinal injured and visit us frequently. Let us find out what method people use for catheterization, the type of catheters, whether it is clean, etc. I don't know all the options. Can you help me design such a poll and we can post it? Thank you. Wise. |
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