The Question of Consciousness

[Chicago]

Scroll down just past half way or just read the other thoughts. My take on the differences between the human mind and computers is our propensity to make many mistakes which will reinforce the consciousness positively or negatively.

It would be nice if the world would realize the value of the misgivings the body has.




http://novaspivack.typepad.com/nova_...chines_wi.html

But will these machine-minds be conscious? Will they be aware of the meanings they interpret, or will they just be automatons that are simply following instructions without any awareness of the meanings they are processing?

The Semantic Web does not require that we make conscious software. It just provides a way to make slightly more intelligent software. There's a big difference. Intelligence is simply a form of information processing, for the most part. It does not require consciousness -- the actual awareness of what is going on -- which is something else altogether.

These operations are for the most part simple procedures applied vast numbers of time and in complex patterns.

[rfbdorf]

If a machine were to be conscious, would we recognize it?
The only way we recognize consciousness in others is by drawing a parallel to ourselves.
Is a dog conscious? A fish? A lobster? A snail? A paramecium? I expect there is a whole continuum of consciousness, from humans right on down to diddly. And all built of networks of neurons (well, maybe not the protozoan!).
- Richard

[Wise Young]

Consciousness, in my opinion, is more complex than memory but less involved than self-awareness. Memory must be part of consciousness because, if we cannot remember, every activity in the brain is just fleeting and can never add or build to anything. Self-awareness is not necessary for consciousness. A lobster or other creatures may not be "self-aware" but they are aware.

A theory of consciousness is that it is mediated by rhythmic activity that is generated by the thalamus. In addition to receiving most of the sensory input of the body, the thalamus also generates synchronizing activity that activate much of the brain. I believe that this synchronizing activity is the mechanism that tells many parts of the brain to compare their activation status and come up with a single "sense" of the world.

The rhythm of the brain differs between different parts of the cortex. For example, the visual cortex sychronizes about 6-10 times per second. The auditiory cortex has a much faster rhythm. The somatosensory system does at about 10 Hz.

These rhythms, I think is the reason why we can look at a movie and not see the rolling frames, why we can hear timing differences of auditory signals that are fractions of a millisecond, and why we have a ten per second tremor of our hands when we are concentrating on controlling the movement.

In other words, our brains are taking a snapshot of our brain activities at 6-10 times per second. These are then placed in our temporary memory. As new sensory experience enters, they are added to the temporary memory. All activity between the synchronizing events really don't matter because they are not recorded.

Self-awareness is when you are distinguishing between events that occur outside of your body and within your body. This comes in part from experience of what sensations from your own body feel like. You explore by touching yourself or moving, to see what the sensation is.

The question is what happens if you cannot feel yourself, i.e. after a spinal cord injury. Because you can't feel it, that part of the body is no longer part of you. Yet, your brain retains a memory of it and you know that it part of your body. It just feels strange.

Wise.

[Chicago]

Consciousness to me is like "being able to plan". Not necessarily short term because animals can do this with instincts. Comparably, computers can process information quickly but don't have a BIG enough box or memory span to think with. And besides, computers only knows what is right according to their program.



To retain enough memory to compare and plan in advance is unique. For example, the account in the book of Genesis where it says "the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand," The interesting thing is that this book is prophetic from the beeginning but it's a silent type of prophesy.


The curse or disadvantage of forethought is that strong emotions are attached and any ineffectual mistakes can have heavy consequences that are too complex to support, there by becoming unnatural or undesirable selections.


Paralysis being sustained is probably much more natural or common than many people may realize: occurring by stroke, heart attacks, genetics, and thru trauma. Maybe as high as 1 in 75 people or 1.33%. Too bad many suffer at the expense of forgetfulness or callousness.

[Acarson]

Doctor-years ago I used to do malpractice defense work. One of my closest friends was an engineer/Dr. who explained how the brain worked (in seventh grade terms, of course). Much of what he said, you said in this thread. Because of that, I now believe that there is no thought after death. I believe in a creator-intelligent design- whatever that means. Do you have an opinion about thought after death?

[adi chicago]

Originally Posted by Wise Young

Consciousness, in my opinion, is more complex than memory but less involved than self-awareness.

The question is what happens if you cannot feel yourself, i.e. after a spinal cord injury. Because you can't feel it, that part of the body is no longer part of you. Yet, your brain retains a memory of it and you know that it part of your body. It just feels strange.

Wise.

very well said .

[Acarson]

A theory of consciousness is that it is mediated by rhythmic activity that is generated by the thalamus. In addition to receiving most of the sensory input of the body, the thalamus also generates synchronizing activity that activate much of the brain. I believe that this synchronizing activity is the mechanism that tells many parts of the brain to compare their activation status and come up with a single "sense" of the world.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Adi Chicago, but without the brain, can there be any thought?

[Wise Young]

Originally Posted by Acarson

Doctor-years ago I used to do malpractice defense work. One of my closest friends was an engineer/Dr. who explained how the brain worked (in seventh grade terms, of course). Much of what he said, you said in this thread. Because of that, I now believe that there is no thought after death. I believe in a creator-intelligent design- whatever that means. Do you have an opinion about thought after death?

Acarson, I believe that your brain is the source of your thoughts. When the brain is not active, the thoughts no longer occur, in the same way that your computer no longer computes if it has been turned off.

The brain is very similar to a computer. People have to reboot when they have been unconscious. We expect them to recognize us when they wake up. In an unplanned shutdown, people often cannot remember what happened to them at the time of becoming unconscious and sometimes for a period of time before (retrograde amnesia). It is sort of like a computer losing its RAM contents. Memory (or your hard disk contents) is a critical component of consciousness. The movie Memento (Source) is absolutely the best exposition on this subject that I know. It is of a man who has only short-term memory and therefore used tattoos, polaroids, and other memory substitutes in his search for his wife's killer.

A favorite Zen Buddhist question concerns something that happened but nobody saw or remembered it. It might as well not have happened unless of course the event has consequences. Thus, only consequences matter. Memory is fleeting. Even history is fleeting. Who did it or why an event occurred is often unknown or unknowable. This concept that only consequences matter is interesting because Buddhists believe in reincarnation, i.e. rebirth into another life. In fact, according to their belief, each of us is a cumulation of many lives and reincarnations. The path that we travel matters only for its consequences, not its intent or even who we are. Maybe this is the most important perspective. Make sure that every action of your life has the right consequences.

Wise.

[adi chicago]

Originally Posted by Wise Young

Acarson, I believe that your brain is the source of your thoughts. When the brain is not active, the thoughts no longer occur, in the same way that your computer no longer computes if it has been turned off.

The brain is very similar to a computer.
Wise.

i have a question please regarding our vital organs and life .
wich is the most important organ that keeps a human alive?heart or brain?

[Wise Young]

Originally Posted by adi chicago

i have a question please regarding our vital organs and life .
wich is the most important organ that keeps a human alive?heart or brain?

Heart. Wise.