The oldest animals... the real methuselahs

[Wise Young]

http://www.lifestartsat.com/bizarre/tortoise.php

If you thought you were old...................

A tortoise has celebrated his 175th birthday in Australia.

Harriet, a Giant Galapagos tortoise, celebrated her birthday at the zoo in Queensland's Sunshine Coast with a pink hibiscus flower cake. She weighs 23 stone and is roughly the size of a dinner table reports BBC online.



Some people believe Harriet was studied by British naturalist Charles Darwin.

Accordign to Wikipedia and Wonderquest, the giant tortoise lives teh longest... about 177 years (Source). However, there is evidence that whales can live longer.

Rare Whales Can Live to Nearly 200, Eye Tissue Reveals
John Roach
for National Geographic News
July 13, 2006

Scientists have looked into the eyes of rare bowhead whales and learned that some of them can outlive humans by generations—with at least one male pushing 200 years old.

"About 5 percent of the population is over a hundred years old and in some cases 160 to 180 years old," said Jeffrey Bada, a marine chemist at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in La Jolla, California.

"They are truly aged animals, perhaps the most aged animals on Earth," he continued.

<more>

An interesting question arose. Are all the long-lived animals big and the shortest-lived animals tiny? In other words, is size a predictor of lifespan? Well, an elephant lives an average of 69 years while a mouse may live 4 years. As it turns out, the mouse and elephant has close to the same number of life-time heart beats, suggesting that the two animals have similar metabolic life spans (Source ). Speakman (2005) addresses this subject in a detailed review (Source).

Because aging increases vulnerability, burden to fellow animals, and is not associated with reproductive increase, why did we evolve aging? What are the evolutionary advantages of long life-spans. Peter Medawar (Source) proposed one explanation, that the force of natural selection declines with age. If an animal survives the early years of its tumultuous youth, it is more likely to survive in its autumnal years. Because the organism does not have any reproductive capacity, this means that there is no natural selection force on these organisms.

The evolutionary theory of aging proposed by Robert McArthur and Edward Wilson in 1967 posits that two factors called r and K respectively play a role. The factor r is population density independent and the factor K is is population density dependent. Organisms in a hazardous environment will be r-selected while organisms in a non-hazardous environment will be K-selected. Because r-selected animals live in a low-density environment, they will be favored to grow faster, have smaller body sizes and shorter lifespans while K-selected individuals will be bigger and longer-lived. They proposed that humans and whales are K-selected while rodents are r-selected.

There are some animals that appear not to age. For example, some fishes, amphibians, and reptiles do not show signs of aging. Turtles are amongst these. In fact, the female Blanding's turtle appear to increase both in terms of survivorship and reproductive output with increasing age over 50 years. Likewise, older painted turtles have increased reproductive output and offspring quality over 38 years. So, the evolutionary theory that aging is inevitable may need to be reconsidered. http://www.agelessanimals.org/

The concept of negligible senescence was proposed in 1990 to explain several animals that had very slow or negligible aging. These include rockfish, sturgeon, turtles, bivalves, and possibly lobsters. The age of animals can be estimated from a known radioactive decay series i the core of bones. So, some of these species include:
- Alligators. They frequently live up to 80 years.
- Green sea turtles. They take up to 50 years to reach maturity (perhaps due to their low protein diet)
- Yelloweye rockfish in Alaska are 50 or more years old when they are eaten. Interestingly, they have short and long-lived members of the same species. The rougheye rockfish lives up to 205 years while the calico calico rockfish lives for 12 years. http://www.agelessanimals.org/

But a decade or two above 200 years seems to be about the limit for animals. In 2003, scientists discovered red sea urchins that are 200 or more years old with few signs of aging (Source). Giant tortoises can live 150 or more years. The orange roughy and Chilean sea bass may reach the century mark. Certain parrots live for 70 or more years. Bivalves (shellfish) age can be estimated from their annual rings and the New England Steamer Clam typically lives 28 or more years with some living 33, 36, and some even approaching 75 years (Source). The European Freshwater mussel has an average lifespan of 100 years. Likewise, the geoduck frequently have 120 annual increments on their shells. But, the ocean quahog (Artica islandica), hold the record with over 150 growth rings.

Amongst mammals, the oldest of the oldest seems to be a bowhead whale believed to be 211 years old when harpooned by Inupiat eskimos (Source). The oldest human on record is Jeanne Louis Calment, a French woman who died in 1997 at the age of 122. Elephants and horses often live to their 60's. There is some suggestion that extended life-span is a shared lift history trait of all large mammals although logic also indicates that mammals have to live a long time to grow to enormous sizes.

All of the above raises some interesting questions concerning aging of humans. Most people believe that ancient humans had much shorter lifespans than ones that are living today. For example, before 1900, few people lived beyond 70 and practically noone lived for 80 years. The neanderthals, for example, died young, typically in the 20's, 30's, and 40's. In the early middle ages, they likewise did not live much beyond 45 years. However, Kings seemed to live longer. In Scotland and England, the royalty lived an average of 49 years and occasionally into their 70's. Between 1900 and 2000, the average lifespan of humans increased by over 50%.


Wise.

[adi chicago]

great post dr.wise .i always asked myself how come is possible that some animals live longer and have superpowers[salamandra regenerate her tail,dolphins ,whales using their echolocation skills ,eye vison ,cats and birds...etc].evolution of species is an amazing thing....but why we humans don`t have the ability to be the most evolved creatures on the earth?

[Lindox]

Harriet looks magnificent.
Are there any diseases that affect this turtle? And why not? That might be a wonderful study.

Sea turtles have many offspring..but only about 1% survive to adulthood. And some believe that might be overstated. Even with this variable included..how does this species avoid all of the disease factors that does kill other species in the same environement?

Or do they just survive due to their immune systems or what? And a whale 212 years old. We know that the whale species is VERY vulnerable to so many types of bacteria..so what makes these few individuals so immune to everything?

[lurch]

This is off on a bit of a tangent but I wondering what palentologist estimate to be the lifespan of the largest dinosaurs.As I understand it the largest modern day reptiles ( namely crocodiles) take almost 100 years to reach 20 feet + proportions.

[Juke_spin]

Originally Posted by adi chicago

great post dr.wise .i always asked myself how come is possible that some animals live longer and have superpowers[salamandra regenerate her tail,dolphins ,whales using their echolocation skills ,eye vison ,cats and birds...etc].evolution of species is an amazing thing....but why we humans don`t have the ability to be the most evolved creatures on the earth?

adi, I believe you are using an outmoded model and/or concept of evolution...but I wish the professor would take this up from here. He's much better at it.

[Wise Young]

Originally Posted by adi chicago

great post dr.wise .i always asked myself how come is possible that some animals live longer and have superpowers[salamandra regenerate her tail,dolphins ,whales using their echolocation skills ,eye vison ,cats and birds...etc].evolution of species is an amazing thing....but why we humans don`t have the ability to be the most evolved creatures on the earth?

Adi,

While regeneration poses advantages for the individual, it does not provide much evolutionary advantage for the species. Until recently, it seems that most people with severe spinal cord injuries died. It may cost less from an evolutionary standpoint to reproduce the few humans that get spinal cord injury than it would cost in terms of metabolic and genetic signalling machinery to regenerate the brain and spinal cord.

Although the above my seem tongue-in-cheek to you, a bit of scientific obsfuscation, there is a kernel of truth in in what I just specualted on. Regeneration is actually a very costly ability to have. As we understand now more about the nature of stem cells, it has become clear that stem cells come with a price: cancer.

If Irv Weissman is right (as I think I mentioned in other posts in the Cure Forum), the only cells that can reproduce themselves are stem cells in the body. In other words, even cancers come from stem cells. If we have more stem cells and live longer, we have more cancer. From an evolutionary perspective It may be more advantageous to let the 100,000 or so people die from spinal cord injury than to have 10,000,000 more people die from cancer. By the way, it is interesting that the only creatures on earth that can regenerate are small and short-lived ones.

Wise.

[Wise Young]

Originally Posted by lurch

This is off on a bit of a tangent but I wondering what palentologist estimate to be the lifespan of the largest dinosaurs.As I understand it the largest modern day reptiles ( namely crocodiles) take almost 100 years to reach 20 feet + proportions.

Fabulous question. I have often wondered myself. According the studies of age-rings of dinosaur bones, the huge sauropods lived roughtly 100 years and smaller dinosaurs had shorter lifespans. Most of the bigger dinosaurs did not reach full adult size for at least 26-38 years. Apparently, the hypselosaurus which reaches 5300 kg at adult size from a hatchling size of 2.4 kg, the growth period alone based on current day reptile growth rates has been estimated to be 82-188 years! http://www.enchantedlearning.com/sub...tomy/Age.shtml

Wise.

[Wise Young]

Originally Posted by Lindox

Harriet looks magnificent.
Are there any diseases that affect this turtle? And why not? That might be a wonderful study.

Sea turtles have many offspring..but only about 1% survive to adulthood. And some believe that might be overstated. Even with this variable included..how does this species avoid all of the disease factors that does kill other species in the same environement?

Or do they just survive due to their immune systems or what? And a whale 212 years old. We know that the whale species is VERY vulnerable to so many types of bacteria..so what makes these few individuals so immune to everything?

In the interest of full disclosure, I think that I better point out that Harriet the turtle died at age 175 of an acute heart attack in June 2006. I am sorry that my post may have been misleading because the news article was a bit dated and Harriet died shortly after the story and picture that I posted. For more than a century, Harriet was originally though to be male and was called Harry.

Wise.



http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/0...e.html?ref=rss

Harriet the turtle dead at age 175
Last Updated: Friday, June 23, 2006 | 3:09 PM ET
CBC News

Harriet the turtle, the oldest known animal in the world, has died at the age of 175 in Australia.

"She had a very fairly acute heart attack and thankfully passed away quietly overnight," Dr. John Hangar of the Australia Zoo said Friday.

[rdf]

Discovery channel is currently showing the Planet Earth series, and by god it's magnificent! Wonderful camera shots like have never before been seen, and it's narrated by Sigourney Weaver.

Part of one show is about the Galapagos, and the strange evolution that took place there. They have a piece on the tortoises. These tortoises work with one species of birds in the Galapagos.

The tortoises lift up as high as they can, really stretching their legs to get high, so that these little birds can come and fly up under them and eat the parasites that are dangerous to the tortoises. The tortoises get rid of the parasites, the birds get free food without fear of being eaten while they dine.

Great show, I recommend it to everybody. The beauty of the Earth and its inhabitants is really apparent watching this series, and I think it might make believers in a creator, where some might not have believed before.

Btw, what is the plural for tortoise? Is it tortoises?

[Wise Young]

Yes, tortoises is the plural of tortoise (Source).

The real question is whether the behavior of standing on tiptoes so that birds can fly in underneath to dine on parasites is evolved or taught from generation to generation. If evolved, how is it possible to code such behavior in DNA. If taught from generation to generation, how did the turtles teach each other?

Wise.

Originally Posted by rdf

Discovery channel is currently showing the Planet Earth series, and by god it's magnificent! Wonderful camera shots like have never before been seen, and it's narrated by Sigourney Weaver.

Part of one show is about the Galapagos, and the strange evolution that took place there. They have a piece on the tortoises. These tortoises work with one species of birds in the Galapagos.

The tortoises lift up as high as they can, really stretching their legs to get high, so that these little birds can come and fly up under them and eat the parasites that are dangerous to the tortoises. The tortoises get rid of the parasites, the birds get free food without fear of being eaten while they dine.

Great show, I recommend it to everybody. The beauty of the Earth and its inhabitants is really apparent watching this series, and I think it might make believers in a creator, where some might not have believed before.

Btw, what is the plural for tortoise? Is it tortoises?