Carl Sagan: little gods

[Wise Young]

I came across the following quote from Carl Sagan recently:
http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/...n-little-gods/

In some respects, science has far surpassed religion in delivering awe. How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, “This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant. God must be even greater than we dreamed!”? Instead they say, “No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.”

Last December 6 was the tenth anniversary of Sagan's death and NPR Science Friday with Ira Flatow had an interview of his wife who had mentioned Sagan's religiousness. He was not a believer in any of the organized religion but he definitely believed in a God. How can a scientist not believe in a God when confronted with so much beauty and the awe-inspiring inspiring universe?

Sagan was of course an astronomer. I am a biologist but I have the same experience that Sagan expressed in the above quote.

Wise.

[rfbdorf]

Whenever I look at a picture of a cluster of galaxies, I am awestruck, both by its beauty and by the thought of what all there is contained within that cluster - such as unimaginable civilizations. There is more there than my brain can process; it is similar to a religious experience. How much more amazing it is to know that its existence and construction is ultimately logically explicable than it is to say it's all there simply because another being made it one day - that just passes the buck.
- Richard

[Juke_spin]

This seems like the old "clock=clockmaker" propostition to me. Unfortunately, when it comes to the awe inspiring cosmos, the one need not imply the other.

Sagan was a genius and a great guy but that doesn't make him right in an area the nature of which forces us back on speculation.

[Hellonwheels]

Originally Posted by rfbdorf

Whenever I look at a picture of a cluster of galaxies, I am awestruck, both by its beauty and by the thought of what all there is contained within that cluster - such as unimaginable civilizations. There is more there than my brain can process; it is similar to a religious experience. How much more amazing it is to know that its existence and construction is ultimately logically explicable than it is to say it's all there simply because another being made it one day - that just passes the buck.
- Richard

Amen.

[darthe]

I am reading "The Language of God" by Francis Collins, subtitled "A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief". He is the Collins of the Human Genome Project. He proposes that there is a harmony between real scientific knowledge and the spiritual knowledge of God. As a believer I have always been astounded at the fear of scientific truth that many religious people have. I like to say to them that because we know "The Truth" does not mean that we know all the truth. It is not surprising that so many in the scientific community have such disdain for religion but I think they confuse religion with the religious people. If there is a God, then all truth is God's truth. It is nothing to fear, but something to be sought with all of our might. The Hubble telescope has done much to increase my awe of a God who knows and cares for me especially through these 5 years of living with my son's SCI.

[Wise Young]

Originally Posted by darthe

I am reading "The Language of God" by Francis Collins, subtitled "A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief". He is the Collins of the Human Genome Project. He proposes that there is a harmony between real scientific knowledge and the spiritual knowledge of God. As a believer I have always been astounded at the fear of scientific truth that many religious people have. I like to say to them that because we know "The Truth" does not mean that we know all the truth. It is not surprising that so many in the scientific community have such disdain for religion but I think they confuse religion with the religious people. If there is a God, then all truth is God's truth. It is nothing to fear, but something to be sought with all of our might. The Hubble telescope has done much to increase my awe of a God who knows and cares for me especially through these 5 years of living with my son's SCI.

Darthe, thank you.

In the past year, I have been exposed to the Buddhist religion for the first time. Several months ago, I met with the Head of a Chi Lin nunnery, a wonderful woman who has impressive vision, energy, and passion. She has created an incredible garden, a temple, and was supervising the final stages of a room where the different Buddhist stories are being told in pictures all around. She had supervised the creation of most of these pictures on computer and they had been printed by one of the most biggest and highest resoluton printers in the world.

She paused in her work to talk with us (a group of scientists). I was amazed by her knowledge of the modern world... because she told us that people should not mistaken the garden, the temple, and the worship chamber, and even her as objects of worship (many people do venerate her because she is so wonderful). She searched for words when she finally hit upon the analogy. She said that the garden, temple, and worship places are tools, in the same way a confocal microscope or the Hubble telescope is to the scientist. We would not worship the microscope or telescope. Rather, we are awed by what we see with the microscope and telescope.

She continued by pointing out three Buddhist precepts (my interpretation). First, life and existence is just a journey through many states. The key to advancing is to know where you are. Until you know where you are, you will now know where to go. Second, action matters and consequences are important. In short, one must consider the consequences of what one does. Third, people and our current states are not as important.

This morning, I was watching TV and heard a Zen Buddhist teacher talk about "good religions". He said that good religions embrace what society considers wholesome, that good religions tolerate other religions and people who believe in other religions. I am struck by how different the Buddhist "religious" perspective is.

Wise.

[john smith]

This morning, I was watching TV and heard a Zen Buddhist teacher talk about "good religions". He said that good religions embrace what society considers wholesome, that good religions tolerate other religions and people who believe in other religions. I am struck by how different the Buddhist "religious" perspective is.

Posted by Wise

What a refreshing idea in an intolerant world.

John

[rfbdorf]

Originally Posted by john smith

What a refreshing idea in an intolerant world.

Absolutely. A wholesome, positive approach, as opposed to the negativity of the "my god is better than yours" that is the basis of so much suffering in the world.
- Richard

[Hellonwheels]

Science is not the enemy of religion (unfortunately, the reverse is not always true). Religion is simply not part of science because science is based on evidence, not faith, and there is simply no scientific evidence to support any particular supernatural belief. It's an individual's prerogative to hold such a belief, but you cannot insert such beliefs into a scientific explanation and still call it science. I'd like to point out that it's also a person's right to not adhere to or even have a reason for a supernatural belief.

[Foolish Old]

Is the Belief that there is no God because it has not been Proven logically consistent?

How does one define/describe this bigger god?

Is Skepticism an essential element of Science? Is Belief of God a contradiction to the scientific approach to discovery?

These are not academic questions, but rather parts of a puzzle I have yet to solve on a personal basis.

After a youth mired in Sophistry, I now believe that the universe contains elements of universal/absolute truth in regards to the actions and responsibilites of humans. Is this acceptance of "God"?