I healed a Stage 4 Ulcer

JakeHalsted · 03-17-2007, 01:31 PM

I thought my job was finished....a small pressure sore I had had for 6 months, I closed on my own. Then I had to make an ER visit because of a coffee burn. I made the mistake of catheterizing in an ER emergecy room...

My urologist put me on an oral bacterim. I go a stricture from the UTI, but the oral antibiotic took care of it. What I didn't expect was that three weeks later, my pressure sore...that was closed...BURST open when I put weight on it. OMGod what I was in for....

My MRI showed bone infection in my ischium. Stage 4 ulcer.

The first step of course is to take care of the infection. The ID doctor first started me on an oral antibiotic that was known to have IV blood levels, and was effective against MRSA. But the fever kept returning. Three months later, I finally let them put in a "PIC line" so I could give myself 3X daily doses of an IV anti-biotic for a three month period. The anti-biotics were a NIGHTMARE on my stomach. But then I did some reading...MYSELF...and found I should take an acidopholus supplement. You know what? It made the antibiotic tolerable! So why didn't the doctor who put me on an antibiotic like that suggest acidopholus? Are they stupid?

For the wound, my plastic surgeon put me on a "wound vac." Everyone in the business is gaga for wound vacs. Apparently they have had some real successes with them. They are VERY effective in the military...you know why? In the military they perform daily dressing changes. Insureance companies won't pay for daily dressing changes for old people. The VAC worked up to a point, and then the opportunistic bacteria brought the progress to a stop. So for about six months, I used a VAC with little to no progress.

Circulation is a very very big part of prevention/healing of pressure sores. And I did lay down...to some extent. Then I begin to feel like a vegetable or a mushroom. My braces and standing was an incredible boon to me, whether or not I had the VAC attached.

Wounds heal in very different ways. One thing that I had was "pedunculated fatty necrosis" which are simply fat globules that form in the healing area of the wound. At the time my visiting nurse said "Oh my God, what is that? They have BLOOD SUPPLY TO THEM." My surgeon laughed and cut them off in the office, and told me it was nothing to worry about.

About eight months after this circus started, I finally told the plastic I had had enough of the wound VAC. So he's like, "OK, let's try it." Once against, doing my OWN RESEARCH, I read that traditional treatments for pressure ulcers included sugar and iodine. Iodine gets rid of opportunistic bacteria. Sugar is a "vasodilator" meaning that it promotes circulation to the injury site. I looked all over the web and finally found a product called "dermawound" which was a composition like the above. I dont' recommend any particular product, but there are not many available for chronic wounds.

For about nine monthsthereafter, I did daily applications of this sugar/iodine mixture, and applied various bandages to the area. Skin breakdown around the area is a very big problem. You need a "wound prep" product that will heal the skin and allow the bandages to adhere.

So finally after about 2 years, I was at a point where there was LOTS and LOTS of scar tissue. Scar tissue will prevent the wound from closing. For about another 9 months, I began a daily ritual of debridement, followed by an administration of dermawound.

The result? It's CLOSED!CLOSED! GAWN! I lost quite alot of muscle tissue throughout this whole 3 year circus. But I did it, WITHOUT SURGERY! Was it worth it to me to avoid a surgery that has about a 60% success rate? HELL YES. I saved bone and muscle that would have been removeed as a part of the protocol...I would have never had a hip left had they operated.

In my experience, the medical industry knows nothing about healing these things. The best cure for the pressure sore is not to get them to begin with. The next step is to find yourself a brilliant plastic surgeon with an open mind, and willingness NOT to do surgery unless it's absolutely necessary.

Good luck, and God bless

Obieone · 03-17-2007, 03:04 PM

Hi Jake

Bill is currently in the hospital with a stage 4 sore waiting to have it surgically debrided and to spend a few weeks on an alternating pressure mattress. Same area he had a flap done on his right ischium... I think I've mentioned it here a time or two

!
I've just printed out the info on the treatment you used to show to his doctor . However my question is this .... if this stuff works as well as stated why is it not widely available and being used everywhere. We are working with a top notch wound care team IMO and have never heard of this product accept on CC. I realize others here have tried it and have had some success as well just as you had but I'm always skeptical .. because the results seem too good to be true and I read voraciously about any and all sorts of treatments .. searching ... hoping .. to find the "miracle" that is going to heal these damn things. Until now I was dressing this particular sore as KLD has reiterated time and again ...... saline wash .. moist dressing/Alevyn ... zero pressure ..... its the zero pressure Bill has a problem with

! But I have conceded I can't live his life for him and ultimately its he who suffers for it !

Prevention is clearly and obviously the main goal ! I don't know about the rest of you but in our case these sores usually start out as a something very minor that inevitably develops into what it is today! And I'm sorry to say that even with my "strong" encouragement by the time Bill starts taking serious care of the damaged area its too late

!

Lynnifer .... what do you think about this stuff ... have you used it??

Obieone

JenJen · 03-17-2007, 03:28 PM

My grandfather was a Chippewa healer. He would have covered the wound in honey a couple of times a day It's antiseptic and contains other vitamins and enzymes that heal. I read that plastic surgeons are using it now to promote healing and reduce scarring.

kwip · 03-17-2007, 03:51 PM

a surgery that has about a 60% success rate

Flap surgery for stage 4 ischial sores? Is this figure correct?

611 · 03-17-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obieone

Hi Jake

Bill is currently in the hospital with a stage 4 sore waiting to have it surgically debrided and to spend a few weeks on an alternating pressure mattress. Same area he had a flap done on his right ischium... I think I've mentioned it here a time or two

!
I've just printed out the info on the treatment you used to show to his doctor . However my question is this .... if this stuff works as well as stated why is it not widely available and being used everywhere. We are working with a top notch wound care team IMO and have never heard of this product accept on CC. I realize others here have tried it and have had some success as well just as you had but I'm always skeptical .. because the results seem too good to be true and I read voraciously about any and all sorts of treatments .. searching ... hoping .. to find the "miracle" that is going to heal these damn things. Until now I was dressing this particular sore as KLD has reiterated time and again ...... saline wash .. moist dressing/Alevyn ... zero pressure ..... its the zero pressure Bill has a problem with

! But I have conceded I can't live his life for him and ultimately its he who suffers for it !

Prevention is clearly and obviously the main goal ! I don't know about the rest of you but in our case these sores usually start out as a something very minor that inevitably develops into what it is today! And I'm sorry to say that even with my "strong" encouragement by the time Bill starts taking serious care of the damaged area its too late

!

Lynnifer .... what do you think about this stuff ... have you used it??

Obieone

I understand! Obie,keep us posted on Bill's progress when you have time.

JakeHalsted · 03-18-2007, 11:01 AM

I checked everything out on PubMed. I also talked to an older nurse, who said the older doctors still prefer sugar and iodine. I know the necrotic tissue has to go, and so the wound vac was probably valuable for some period of time.

But I'm convinced that after that time, I was creating my own infection with all that plastic. I had a nasty yeast infection, too. I cured that overnight with heavy doses of garlic. (Again, look it up on PubMed. Don't believe me or go to some herb dealer.)

You are right. The best cure for pressure sore is DON'T GET ONE!

But after that it's important to realize that most of the research and procedures on ulcers were developed for geriatric patients in nursing homes.

611 · 03-18-2007, 11:43 AM

I have no doubt that Jake healed his wound as I've healed numerous wounds sitting on my Roho.In 1982,I healed one over 3" deep and never missed a day of work. Jake is right about age having a lot to do with how well one heals.I have 4 doctors and a wound clinic to verify my claims.
The medical model of disability views spinal cord individuals as victims of circumstances who we have nothing better to do with our lives than be career patients. It may be best to stay off of them but lying in bed does not help one's circulation improve. When sitting up,rolling in chair,and doing good pressure reliefs,one greatly increases circulation which promotes wound healing.

Tiger Racing · 03-20-2007, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JenJen

My grandfather was a Chippewa healer. He would have covered the wound in honey a couple of times a day It's antiseptic and contains other vitamins and enzymes that heal. I read that plastic surgeons are using it now to promote healing and reduce scarring.

A friend of mine who happens to be a bee keeper suggested I try honey on my wound. She sent me a huge bottle of the stuff.... which I never used on my wound because it tastes so yummy, I didn't want to waste it.

C.

scoty20 · 03-20-2007, 06:16 PM

Will get the Dermawound and try it out.Been working with a wound on my but for 2 years plus.Tried many types of wound healing cream/gel
iodine etc but nothing works.Btw,i got a wound which is not very bad but it has few tunels/cave which 3-4inch deep and sometimes produce puss.

Dermawound recomended for me?Any advise will be highly apreciated.

Regards,
Noel

SCI-Nurse · 03-20-2007, 08:38 PM

Noel-
It's hard to say if the Dermawound will work with the little information that you gave. What does the wound look like? Is it red, deep, bleeds, - that information would help.
While I applaud Jake for taking the time to heal his wound, my only advice is that not everyone is that patient. And you are right on a number of your points- age, mobility, and general health all effect ow you heal. The best advice is to try to prevent the problem - and I know that you all know the methods that have been taught over the years. I also know that no matter what some of you do, unfortunately you may end up with a pressure ulcer.
Also, try to keep in mind that all doctors are not created equal. Some have more experience with sci and pressure ulcers and those are the ones that you should try to seek out.
CKF

03-17-2007, 01:31 PM	#1
JakeHalsted Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,052	I healed a Stage 4 Ulcer I thought my job was finished....a small pressure sore I had had for 6 months, I closed on my own. Then I had to make an ER visit because of a coffee burn. I made the mistake of catheterizing in an ER emergecy room... My urologist put me on an oral bacterim. I go a stricture from the UTI, but the oral antibiotic took care of it. What I didn't expect was that three weeks later, my pressure sore...that was closed...BURST open when I put weight on it. OMGod what I was in for.... My MRI showed bone infection in my ischium. Stage 4 ulcer. The first step of course is to take care of the infection. The ID doctor first started me on an oral antibiotic that was known to have IV blood levels, and was effective against MRSA. But the fever kept returning. Three months later, I finally let them put in a "PIC line" so I could give myself 3X daily doses of an IV anti-biotic for a three month period. The anti-biotics were a NIGHTMARE on my stomach. But then I did some reading...MYSELF...and found I should take an acidopholus supplement. You know what? It made the antibiotic tolerable! So why didn't the doctor who put me on an antibiotic like that suggest acidopholus? Are they stupid? For the wound, my plastic surgeon put me on a "wound vac." Everyone in the business is gaga for wound vacs. Apparently they have had some real successes with them. They are VERY effective in the military...you know why? In the military they perform daily dressing changes. Insureance companies won't pay for daily dressing changes for old people. The VAC worked up to a point, and then the opportunistic bacteria brought the progress to a stop. So for about six months, I used a VAC with little to no progress. Circulation is a very very big part of prevention/healing of pressure sores. And I did lay down...to some extent. Then I begin to feel like a vegetable or a mushroom. My braces and standing was an incredible boon to me, whether or not I had the VAC attached. Wounds heal in very different ways. One thing that I had was "pedunculated fatty necrosis" which are simply fat globules that form in the healing area of the wound. At the time my visiting nurse said "Oh my God, what is that? They have BLOOD SUPPLY TO THEM." My surgeon laughed and cut them off in the office, and told me it was nothing to worry about. About eight months after this circus started, I finally told the plastic I had had enough of the wound VAC. So he's like, "OK, let's try it." Once against, doing my OWN RESEARCH, I read that traditional treatments for pressure ulcers included sugar and iodine. Iodine gets rid of opportunistic bacteria. Sugar is a "vasodilator" meaning that it promotes circulation to the injury site. I looked all over the web and finally found a product called "dermawound" which was a composition like the above. I dont' recommend any particular product, but there are not many available for chronic wounds. For about nine monthsthereafter, I did daily applications of this sugar/iodine mixture, and applied various bandages to the area. Skin breakdown around the area is a very big problem. You need a "wound prep" product that will heal the skin and allow the bandages to adhere. So finally after about 2 years, I was at a point where there was LOTS and LOTS of scar tissue. Scar tissue will prevent the wound from closing. For about another 9 months, I began a daily ritual of debridement, followed by an administration of dermawound. The result? It's CLOSED!CLOSED! GAWN! I lost quite alot of muscle tissue throughout this whole 3 year circus. But I did it, WITHOUT SURGERY! Was it worth it to me to avoid a surgery that has about a 60% success rate? HELL YES. I saved bone and muscle that would have been removeed as a part of the protocol...I would have never had a hip left had they operated. In my experience, the medical industry knows nothing about healing these things. The best cure for the pressure sore is not to get them to begin with. The next step is to find yourself a brilliant plastic surgeon with an open mind, and willingness NOT to do surgery unless it's absolutely necessary. Good luck, and God bless

03-17-2007, 03:04 PM	#2
Obieone Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Manitoba,Canada Posts: 5,603	Hi Jake Bill is currently in the hospital with a stage 4 sore waiting to have it surgically debrided and to spend a few weeks on an alternating pressure mattress. Same area he had a flap done on his right ischium... I think I've mentioned it here a time or two ! I've just printed out the info on the treatment you used to show to his doctor . However my question is this .... if this stuff works as well as stated why is it not widely available and being used everywhere. We are working with a top notch wound care team IMO and have never heard of this product accept on CC. I realize others here have tried it and have had some success as well just as you had but I'm always skeptical .. because the results seem too good to be true and I read voraciously about any and all sorts of treatments .. searching ... hoping .. to find the "miracle" that is going to heal these damn things. Until now I was dressing this particular sore as KLD has reiterated time and again ...... saline wash .. moist dressing/Alevyn ... zero pressure ..... its the zero pressure Bill has a problem with ! But I have conceded I can't live his life for him and ultimately its he who suffers for it ! Prevention is clearly and obviously the main goal ! I don't know about the rest of you but in our case these sores usually start out as a something very minor that inevitably develops into what it is today! And I'm sorry to say that even with my "strong" encouragement by the time Bill starts taking serious care of the damaged area its too late ! Lynnifer .... what do you think about this stuff ... have you used it?? Obieone __________________ ~ Be the change you wish to see in the world ~ Mahatma Gandi " calling all Angels ...... calling all Angels ....walk me through this one .. don't leave me alone .... calling all Angels .... calling all Angels .... we're tryin' and we're hopin' cause we're not sure how ....... this .... goes ..." Jane Siberry

03-17-2007, 03:28 PM	#3
JenJen Moderator Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,401	My grandfather was a Chippewa healer. He would have covered the wound in honey a couple of times a day It's antiseptic and contains other vitamins and enzymes that heal. I read that plastic surgeons are using it now to promote healing and reduce scarring. __________________ My blog: Living Life at Butt Level Ignite Phoenix #9 - Wheelchairs and Wisdom: Living Life at Butt Level "I will not die an unlived life. I will not live in fear of falling or catching fire. I choose to inhabit my days, to allow my living to open me, to make me less afraid, more accessible, to loosen my heart until it becomes a wing, a torch, a promise. I choose to risk my significance; to live so that which comes to me as seed goes to the next as blossom and that which comes to me as blossom, goes on as fruit." *Dawna Markova Author of Open Mind.*

03-18-2007, 11:01 AM	#6
JakeHalsted Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,052	I'm not a doctor... I checked everything out on PubMed. I also talked to an older nurse, who said the older doctors still prefer sugar and iodine. I know the necrotic tissue has to go, and so the wound vac was probably valuable for some period of time. But I'm convinced that after that time, I was creating my own infection with all that plastic. I had a nasty yeast infection, too. I cured that overnight with heavy doses of garlic. (Again, look it up on PubMed. Don't believe me or go to some herb dealer.) You are right. The best cure for pressure sore is DON'T GET ONE! But after that it's important to realize that most of the research and procedures on ulcers were developed for geriatric patients in nursing homes.

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03-17-2007, 03:51 PM	#4
kwip Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 25	a surgery that has about a 60% success rate Flap surgery for stage 4 ischial sores? Is this figure correct?

03-18-2007, 11:43 AM	#7
611 Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 559	I have no doubt that Jake healed his wound as I've healed numerous wounds sitting on my Roho.In 1982,I healed one over 3" deep and never missed a day of work. Jake is right about age having a lot to do with how well one heals.I have 4 doctors and a wound clinic to verify my claims. The medical model of disability views spinal cord individuals as victims of circumstances who we have nothing better to do with our lives than be career patients. It may be best to stay off of them but lying in bed does not help one's circulation improve. When sitting up,rolling in chair,and doing good pressure reliefs,one greatly increases circulation which promotes wound healing.

03-20-2007, 06:16 PM	#9
scoty20 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Malaysia Posts: 17	Will get the Dermawound and try it out.Been working with a wound on my but for 2 years plus.Tried many types of wound healing cream/gel iodine etc but nothing works.Btw,i got a wound which is not very bad but it has few tunels/cave which 3-4inch deep and sometimes produce puss. Dermawound recomended for me?Any advise will be highly apreciated. Regards, Noel

03-20-2007, 08:38 PM	#10
SCI-Nurse Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: USA Posts: 41,344	Noel- It's hard to say if the Dermawound will work with the little information that you gave. What does the wound look like? Is it red, deep, bleeds, - that information would help. While I applaud Jake for taking the time to heal his wound, my only advice is that not everyone is that patient. And you are right on a number of your points- age, mobility, and general health all effect ow you heal. The best advice is to try to prevent the problem - and I know that you all know the methods that have been taught over the years. I also know that no matter what some of you do, unfortunately you may end up with a pressure ulcer. Also, try to keep in mind that all doctors are not created equal. Some have more experience with sci and pressure ulcers and those are the ones that you should try to seek out. CKF

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