Dr. Young is it true only 12 students in wheelchairs attend Rutgers? - Page 12

bigbob · 05-09-2005, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Clipper

Member
I never said that paras "should be happy playing a sport that doesn't require the full use of their arms." That is BULLSHIT, plain and simple.

What's this then

Quote:

Clipper

Member
Yeah, poor bastards. They're so limited.

To me that shows hostility towards people with more ability

You also added "Everything I mentioned can be enjoyed by paras, so I don't think that leaves them in limbo."

Which is saying you want paras to settle for less. Maybe the AB's should be limited to the sports you mentioned too, why aim your limiting to paras.

Jeff · 05-09-2005, 09:46 AM

Bob, we had two students in wheelchairs at my school, UVM. Two quads. This despite the fact that it was a research university with a well-regarded medical school and was associated with University Associates in Rehabilitation. The affiliated hospital wasn't a SCI model center but a couple dozen SCI would do their rehabilitation there every year from all over Vermont and upstate NY.

If I had it to do over I would go to a different school in a better climate with fewer hills. It would have made my college years so soon after my injury a lot easier to cope with. Probably would have improved my GPA, too.

For Rutgers to overnight recruit 100 students in chairs just isn't going to happen. My advice to those students is to go to Arizona. Even Illinois has a better climate. I think states should offer in-state rates possibly subsidized by payments from the state of student's residence. Not every university can have a few hundred students in wheelchairs. That's just the way it is.

Anyway, keep up the good fight, Bob.

~See you at the CareCure-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion

~

bigbob · 05-09-2005, 10:40 AM

Chicago average snowfall 10.7 8.1 7.0
Newark NJ average snowfall 7.5 7.9 4.9
Source

Why do you guys keep trying to prove me wrong?

Jeff, I know and ADA is well enforced also

Lindox · 05-09-2005, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigB:

Chicago average snowfall 10.7 8.1 7.0
Newark NJ average snowfall 7.5 7.9 4.9
http://www.met.utah.edu/jhorel/html/.../normsnow.html

Why do you guys keep trying to prove me wrong?

Jeff, I know and ADA is well enforced also

Bob,
No body is really trying to prove you wrong..
Just trying to offer reasons for why things are.

I guess until you have fought many winters trying to just get to school without looking as if you were drug there behind a bus..well it's not that easy to understand.

"A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk foreward." FDR

Jeff · 05-09-2005, 11:32 AM

Bob, you're trying to pull a fast one. The Urbana-Champaign area doesn't get the lake effect snow that Chicago does, it's 120 miles south of Lake Michigan.

Check it out here:

http://www.commerce.state.il.us/comm...les/URBANA.htm

New Brunswick and Urbana are on a similar lattitude and snowfall is similar but I assume the midwest is different than the coastal climate we get in Jersey. Plus, the Urbana campus is very flat. That's a huge benefit for manual wheelchair users. I'd have gone to that school with its established programs in a heartbeat, if I'd thought about it. I really wish I had.

Something else maybe you should ask yourself is why you are not engendering support from your peers here in the forums. Maybe you should think about your approach. Maybe you are losing more support than you are gaining. That's a real possibility as I don't see a whole lot of support flowing your way on this issue. The more I'm involved the less I personally desire wheelchair basketball at Rutgers. I prefer Rutgers to emphasize its research and leave wheelchair sports to those schools which have somewhat specialized in it. The page views you're garnering here are people coming to see the train wreck, IMO. Sorry. But that's how I see it. I feel sorry for you to be beating away at the windmill with your bare hands. But I don't think I can help you.

~See you at the CareCure-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion

~

jayday9 · 05-09-2005, 12:52 PM

BigB...why not get some AB's to get together and play WC basketball?

don't ever become content with SCI...

Clipper · 05-09-2005, 01:03 PM

Bob,

My "poor bastards" comment was in direct response to your "poor bastards" comment. It's called sarcasm.

I have ZERO hostility toward people with more ability. And if you would bother to read posts thoroughly and thoughtfully, you'd realize that supporting activities with broad appeal is ONE STEP toward achieving YOUR greater goal. I never said paras should settle for less. That's yet another example of you twisting words. Why don't you set forth a plan of action instead of spending time refuting people here?

Kaprikorn1 · 05-09-2005, 01:52 PM

Bob...did you ever consider the fact that one of the reasons there are so few people in w/c's at Rutgers, or any other school, is the tremendous amount of classes that are offered over the internet?

It's so much easier for paralyzed people to take classes on line from their own homes that the comparison is almost impossible. I realize that you may not understand this, so I'm giving you a pass in the hopes that you will carefully consider this fact.

Even for me, a walking para, just getting ready to leave the house for a few errands requires at least 2 hours to just get ready. Showering, shaving and dressing is a big part. Then there's taking meds, eating, packing necessary supplies, doing bowel program, cathing right before leaving, making several trips to the car with whatever one is taking with, etc., etc., etc. This does not even take into account all of the problems encountered AFTER one leaves the house such as finding h/c parking, access to classrooms, weather problems, etc., etc., etc.

THINK about how much you would like to go to classes or to a job having to deal with all of this EVERY TIME you go out. It can easily add 4-6 hours to the length of the same daily schedule than what an AB would experience.

Thank god we have an internet!

Kap

accept no substitutes

Clipper · 05-09-2005, 02:38 PM

New Mobility did a story in 1998 on Disability-Friendly Colleges. The schools below are what they listed as "10 of America's Best" based on the 34 schools that completed their survey. I have provided their chart regarding adapative sports at each of those 10 schools, plus several others. Though this story was done in 1998, you'll see that wheelchair basketball isn't as commonly found as other activities that appeal to a broader range of disabilities.

Recreational Amenities, Special Programs On-Campus or Offered Locally:

Top Ten

University of Illinois: adaptive strength & conditioning training, adapted physical activity course, track & field, wheelchair basketball

University of California-Berkeley: works with individuals to custom design recreational programs

Edinboro University of Pennsylvania: wheelchair basketball, football, quad rugby, table tennis, weight lifting, swimming, track & field, archery, scuba, winter sports

University of Wisconsin: adaptive sports & fitness programs

University of Colorado at Denver: adaptive skiing, water-skiing, camping, swimming

Florida State University: 16-lane lift-accessible pool, accessible exercise machines, aquatic program, wilderness & adventure trips

UCLA: campus sports and recreation activities are programmatically accessible; modifications are made as appropriate

University of Minnesota: adaptive rec programs and equipment, wheelchair basketball

Wayne State University: no data

Texas A&M: adaptive class in health and kinesiology program, accommodations provided as requested for sports and recreation programs

Others

University of Florida: adapted P.E. program, one-on-one assistance with adapted equipment in rec center

Penn State: adaptive P.E. course

University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth:
accessible swimming pool in athletic center

Salisbury State University: hosts wheelchair games

Univerity of Connecticut: Muscle Max sports lab; School of Allied Health offers individual workout training

University of Iowa: adapted weight room

University of California-Santa Cruz:
accommodations provided on request through P.E. department

University of California-San Diego: accessible swimming pool

University of Delaware-Newark: accommodations are made to P.E. programs on a case-by-case basis

University of Washington: boating, skiing, bicycling

Georgia Tech: wheelchair basketball, tennis, fencing, racing, racquetball, bowling, quad rugby, swimming

State University of N.Y.-Binghamton: swimming pool with lift; student's needs are met through individually designed accommodations

University of Michigan: wheelchair basketball

Jeff · 05-09-2005, 04:09 PM

Article:

http://newmobility.com/review_articl...&action=browse

My school, UVM, was in that article. Under "Hilly terain or other natural barriers to mobility" it scored 80-100%. Meaning 80-100% of facilities had hilly terrain or natural barriers. Rutgers is almost as bad. The hills here really suck. And the campus is spread all over. I'm not surprised if there are fewer wheelchair users than other schools. I'm not surprised we only had two at UVM.

To combat the low wheelchair user enrollment I'd much rather see my Jersey tax dollars go toward advanced rehabilitation research, all-terrain/outdoor FES mobility bikes, suspended treadmill walking, FES rowing and walking, reversing learned non-use, etc than to go toward a ball team that would appeal to such a small fragment of the disabled population. Instead of a ball club I'd prefer we had a bone-density club, an FES club or an adaptive walking club. We could get the Rutgers biotech people and rehab and maybe even nursing students involved. Hey, I'll be a staff advisor!

This way young adults wouldn't have to choose between rehab and school.

With cures around the corner for Parkinson's, MS, SCI and others... this would fill a much bigger and much more unmet need. Of course, Rutgers is always tightening its budget. And the state's stem cell initiatives are drawing the most attention right now. But it's nice to think about for someday.

~See you at the CareCure-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion

~

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05-09-2005, 09:46 AM	#112
Jeff Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Brunswick, NJ, USA Posts: 6,858	Bob, we had two students in wheelchairs at my school, UVM. Two quads. This despite the fact that it was a research university with a well-regarded medical school and was associated with University Associates in Rehabilitation. The affiliated hospital wasn't a SCI model center but a couple dozen SCI would do their rehabilitation there every year from all over Vermont and upstate NY. If I had it to do over I would go to a different school in a better climate with fewer hills. It would have made my college years so soon after my injury a lot easier to cope with. Probably would have improved my GPA, too. For Rutgers to overnight recruit 100 students in chairs just isn't going to happen. My advice to those students is to go to Arizona. Even Illinois has a better climate. I think states should offer in-state rates possibly subsidized by payments from the state of student's residence. Not every university can have a few hundred students in wheelchairs. That's just the way it is. Anyway, keep up the good fight, Bob. ~See you at the CareCure-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion ~

05-09-2005, 10:40 AM	#113
bigbob Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,005	Chicago average snowfall 10.7 8.1 7.0 Newark NJ average snowfall 7.5 7.9 4.9 Source Why do you guys keep trying to prove me wrong? Jeff, I know and ADA is well enforced also

05-09-2005, 11:32 AM	#115
Jeff Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Brunswick, NJ, USA Posts: 6,858	Bob, you're trying to pull a fast one. The Urbana-Champaign area doesn't get the lake effect snow that Chicago does, it's 120 miles south of Lake Michigan. Check it out here: http://www.commerce.state.il.us/comm...les/URBANA.htm New Brunswick and Urbana are on a similar lattitude and snowfall is similar but I assume the midwest is different than the coastal climate we get in Jersey. Plus, the Urbana campus is very flat. That's a huge benefit for manual wheelchair users. I'd have gone to that school with its established programs in a heartbeat, if I'd thought about it. I really wish I had. Something else maybe you should ask yourself is why you are not engendering support from your peers here in the forums. Maybe you should think about your approach. Maybe you are losing more support than you are gaining. That's a real possibility as I don't see a whole lot of support flowing your way on this issue. The more I'm involved the less I personally desire wheelchair basketball at Rutgers. I prefer Rutgers to emphasize its research and leave wheelchair sports to those schools which have somewhat specialized in it. The page views you're garnering here are people coming to see the train wreck, IMO. Sorry. But that's how I see it. I feel sorry for you to be beating away at the windmill with your bare hands. But I don't think I can help you. ~See you at the CareCure-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion ~

05-09-2005, 12:52 PM	#116
jayday9 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,217	BigB...why not get some AB's to get together and play WC basketball? don't ever become content with SCI...

05-09-2005, 01:03 PM	#117
Clipper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,516	Bob, My "poor bastards" comment was in direct response to your "poor bastards" comment. It's called sarcasm. I have ZERO hostility toward people with more ability. And if you would bother to read posts thoroughly and thoughtfully, you'd realize that supporting activities with broad appeal is ONE STEP toward achieving YOUR greater goal. I never said paras should settle for less. That's yet another example of you twisting words. Why don't you set forth a plan of action instead of spending time refuting people here?

05-09-2005, 01:52 PM	#118
Kaprikorn1 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: S.F. Bay Area, Calif. Posts: 1,369	Bob...did you ever consider the fact that one of the reasons there are so few people in w/c's at Rutgers, or any other school, is the tremendous amount of classes that are offered over the internet? It's so much easier for paralyzed people to take classes on line from their own homes that the comparison is almost impossible. I realize that you may not understand this, so I'm giving you a pass in the hopes that you will carefully consider this fact. Even for me, a walking para, just getting ready to leave the house for a few errands requires at least 2 hours to just get ready. Showering, shaving and dressing is a big part. Then there's taking meds, eating, packing necessary supplies, doing bowel program, cathing right before leaving, making several trips to the car with whatever one is taking with, etc., etc., etc. This does not even take into account all of the problems encountered AFTER one leaves the house such as finding h/c parking, access to classrooms, weather problems, etc., etc., etc. THINK about how much you would like to go to classes or to a job having to deal with all of this EVERY TIME you go out. It can easily add 4-6 hours to the length of the same daily schedule than what an AB would experience. Thank god we have an internet! Kap accept no substitutes

05-09-2005, 02:38 PM	#119
Clipper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,516	New Mobility did a story in 1998 on Disability-Friendly Colleges. The schools below are what they listed as "10 of America's Best" based on the 34 schools that completed their survey. I have provided their chart regarding adapative sports at each of those 10 schools, plus several others. Though this story was done in 1998, you'll see that wheelchair basketball isn't as commonly found as other activities that appeal to a broader range of disabilities. Recreational Amenities, Special Programs On-Campus or Offered Locally: Top Ten University of Illinois: adaptive strength & conditioning training, adapted physical activity course, track & field, wheelchair basketball University of California-Berkeley: works with individuals to custom design recreational programs Edinboro University of Pennsylvania: wheelchair basketball, football, quad rugby, table tennis, weight lifting, swimming, track & field, archery, scuba, winter sports University of Wisconsin: adaptive sports & fitness programs University of Colorado at Denver: adaptive skiing, water-skiing, camping, swimming Florida State University: 16-lane lift-accessible pool, accessible exercise machines, aquatic program, wilderness & adventure trips UCLA: campus sports and recreation activities are programmatically accessible; modifications are made as appropriate University of Minnesota: adaptive rec programs and equipment, wheelchair basketball Wayne State University: no data Texas A&M: adaptive class in health and kinesiology program, accommodations provided as requested for sports and recreation programs Others University of Florida: adapted P.E. program, one-on-one assistance with adapted equipment in rec center Penn State: adaptive P.E. course University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth: accessible swimming pool in athletic center Salisbury State University: hosts wheelchair games Univerity of Connecticut: Muscle Max sports lab; School of Allied Health offers individual workout training University of Iowa: adapted weight room University of California-Santa Cruz: accommodations provided on request through P.E. department University of California-San Diego: accessible swimming pool University of Delaware-Newark: accommodations are made to P.E. programs on a case-by-case basis University of Washington: boating, skiing, bicycling Georgia Tech: wheelchair basketball, tennis, fencing, racing, racquetball, bowling, quad rugby, swimming State University of N.Y.-Binghamton: swimming pool with lift; student's needs are met through individually designed accommodations University of Michigan: wheelchair basketball

05-09-2005, 04:09 PM	#120
Jeff Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Brunswick, NJ, USA Posts: 6,858	Article: http://newmobility.com/review_articl...&action=browse My school, UVM, was in that article. Under "Hilly terain or other natural barriers to mobility" it scored 80-100%. Meaning 80-100% of facilities had hilly terrain or natural barriers. Rutgers is almost as bad. The hills here really suck. And the campus is spread all over. I'm not surprised if there are fewer wheelchair users than other schools. I'm not surprised we only had two at UVM. To combat the low wheelchair user enrollment I'd much rather see my Jersey tax dollars go toward advanced rehabilitation research, all-terrain/outdoor FES mobility bikes, suspended treadmill walking, FES rowing and walking, reversing learned non-use, etc than to go toward a ball team that would appeal to such a small fragment of the disabled population. Instead of a ball club I'd prefer we had a bone-density club, an FES club or an adaptive walking club. We could get the Rutgers biotech people and rehab and maybe even nursing students involved. Hey, I'll be a staff advisor! This way young adults wouldn't have to choose between rehab and school. With cures around the corner for Parkinson's, MS, SCI and others... this would fill a much bigger and much more unmet need. Of course, Rutgers is always tightening its budget. And the state's stem cell initiatives are drawing the most attention right now. But it's nice to think about for someday. ~See you at the CareCure-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion ~