what would you say best chair on market is now for highly active T6?

[joshstevens7]

i have 2 insurances and its time to finally get a new chair. i have set in a zra and tra for last 7 years now and love Ti lites but was wondering if there is another chair out now that beats them...

[Donno]

I would give the Icon a look.

[DaleB]

I'd stick with the devil you know, rather than try to cultivate a new relationship, with a new manifestation of evil.

All chairs suck.

Having said that, there are differences of degree, if not type.

TiLite chairs suck less.

If you've got a good spec for your needs in the TiLite chairs I can't imagine you deriving any more benefit from any other chair, assuming you could translate the specs from one manufacturer to another. Or even, the specs from one model of chair, to another.

I don't think anything has hit the scene since your most recent spec to warrant much, if any, change...from a 'brand' point of view.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of new concepts, like the Icon. I'm just not sold on the need for much innovation in this market, right now, that can't be tied directly to clinical advantage.

After all, these are first and for most medical devices, and second, fashion accessories.

[brian]

Pick the one that makes your penis look biggest.

[JeffAdams]

@DaleB - Maybe I'm not understanding you - are you suggesting that the innovations of the Icon (suspension, adjustability) don't provide any clinical advantage?

With respect, the Icon A1 is a big change from what has been available on the market for a long time.

Taken alone, the suspension component that the Icon provides would seem to be enough of a clinical benefit to warrant at least a trial.

[sherocksandsherolls]

Originally Posted by JeffAdams

@DaleB - Maybe I'm not understanding you - are you suggesting that the innovations of the Icon (suspension, adjustability) don't provide any clinical advantage?

With respect, the Icon A1 is a big change from what has been available on the market for a long time.

Taken alone, the suspension component that the Icon provides would seem to be enough of a clinical benefit to warrant at least a trial.

I would second that! Even with my freewheel..Cobblestone streets all over France had me saying more than I wanted out loud..I am getting suspension in my next chair! I will most definitely be looking into an ICON! My back and bumm need a break! )

[DaleB]

Originally Posted by JeffAdams

@DaleB - Maybe I'm not understanding you - are you suggesting that the innovations of the Icon (suspension, adjustability) don't provide any clinical advantage?

With respect, the Icon A1 is a big change from what has been available on the market for a long time.

Taken alone, the suspension component that the Icon provides would seem to be enough of a clinical benefit to warrant at least a trial.

Not at all, just opining about my priorities when it comes to mobility.

I see how I inferred otherwise, sorry.

I am pro-suspension.

Everyone should give the Icon a spin, especially if they've never tried a good suspended seat.

In this context I'm of the opinion, relative to the OP's prior ZR/TR experience and wondering what's improved since, there isn't much better available, especially if he's got a solid TR/ZR spec that works.

If I were him, I'd stick with TiLite.

That's all I meant to imply.

That, and don't seek newness for its sake alone. I've done that, and it led to a ton of money wasted. A ton.

[JeffAdams]

You still seem to be saying contradictory things.

1. Suspension is a good thing.
2. If you were him, you'd stick with a chair that doesn't have suspension.

Also, as designers, I really hope that we're not bringing "newness" for its sake alone. Every part on the Icon was designed with a purpose in mind, and we took out many elements from our previous designs that were possibly good in theory, but didn't provide enough real-world benefits (suspension for the front end).

Also, this is a bit of an after-thought from one of your posts above, but there's no need to "translate specs" to an Icon, which seems to be one of your (legitimate) concerns going from brand to brand or even within a brand from model to model.

[DaleB]

Not contradictory, different contexts.

I like suspension. Having spent ample time using both, I concluded it was a benefit to me. It is not all benefit, nor of any, to some users, though. People I respect, with knowledge of both, opt for rigid chairs. It's simply not a universal 'plus' (or medical need) to have a suspended wheelchair, IMO. Nor, an incredibly adjustable one.

Based on the question asked, and the background given, I thought a new TiLite would be the choice I would make.

"The devil I know."

[chaiale]

I don't think Dale's statement is intrinsically contradictory: he may be pro-suspension for himself without believing that the potential benefits of suspension are worth the risks of changing brands if you don't have serious problems with your current chair. For a lot of people, suspension is a lifesaver and clinically beneficial; on the other hand, the shocks and vibrations that would be eliminated by using suspension don't bother me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a FAN of cobblestones, but it's the pushing inefficiency that bothers me. I actually find the vibrations a bit soothing, tbh. I think even with a fantastic suspension system (and I haven't demo'd the Icon, so I can't say whether it qualifies for that category), it's never going to be so great that absolutely everybody ought to have it.

Having said all that, I think non-clinical forms of innovation as such are absolutely worth it, contra Dale. To me, the most significant innovation of the Icon is economic, not clinical. The Icon has the potential to transform the secondary market for manual wheelchairs, as has been said in threads past, because the interusability of the chair between people of different sizes increases the available supply of used wheelchairs for any given user. Right now, ChrissyOT is the only person on CC I know of whom I can buy a chair from and feel confident that the specs are going to be pretty much on (in fact, I think I unknowingly bought my backup chair from her on eBay a month ago). If I needed a used chair and could buy from the set of {(ChrissyOT+others who match my specs) AND (all Icon users)} I suddenly have WAY more options, even if the pool of Icon users interested in selling is fairly small. My back-of-the-napkin calculations say that, given the preexisting value drop in secondary-market sales and the foreseeably small market penetration of the Icon in contradistinction to Quickies and whatnot, the economic benefits in pricing won't be as substantial as the benefits in increased availability of used chairs after 5-10 years of the Icon on the market, but that alone is worth the non-clinical innovation in my book. Maybe it doesn't justify Dale buying it for himself, but it certainly justifies its existence on the market.

Dang, I really wish I could have put that whole thing under a spoiler bar for length. Sorry for the verbosity, y'all.

To actually answer the OP (albeit from the perspective of a total n00b), I'll point out that if you're considering a first chair or considering switching brands, a relevant concern for both is the reputation and customer service of the manufacturer. I originally chose Colours for the price, but if I have my druthers I'll probably ride them for a good long time because I have such a good personal relationship with the people at the company (though as cass often points out, YMMV). I only live 50 miles from their headquarters, so it's easy for me to stop in, even for repairs or fittings, and I have personally met and talked to at least half the employees of the entire company when doing so. TiLite would have to have a very substantial engineering advantage, rather than the small one it arguably enjoys now, or a big price difference to persuade me to switch from that (even though the TR3 is soooooooo droolworthy and pretty!). I can't imagine the circumstances it would take personally to switch to Quickie.

If you've had a good experience with TiLite as a company and customer service provider, you should think twice before jumping ship, even if other chairs have some small advantage in ride. When you're trying to get a part or a frame repair, it suddenly makes a lot of difference. Conversely, if Tilite's part prices drive you crazy or there's a feature on another chair you actually want, the bar to switching may be much lower. The differences between ultralights are small enough and general performance level high enough that these other considerations could act as make-or-breaks for you.

(Also, I'm sure others will mention this, but if you have your Ti specs dialled in by now and you want to stick with Ti, it may be worth jumping to a ZR or TR for the weight savings and fewer moving parts to fail.)