Curing SCI should be so easy

[Cripply]

Originally Posted by Barrington314mx

are you talking about something like this?
http://neurosciencenerveregenerationint.com/

I am talking about that concept, but using suitable forms of transmission. Just "stimulating" stuff blindly yes, we know it will produce movement, random movement. Signals coming from the brain are exquisitely specific, what to move, how much, when, what the efefct is going to be on other muscle groups, organs, etc, etc. All of that information comes encoded in an electrochemical way. We need to capture that signal (which is going to be a complex of multiple signals) and transmit it automatically. The reason for this is that it is distance that prevents transmission as we are (the distance from the last healthy axon or dendrite tip to the first healthy one after the injury). Because radio waves can be transmitted for very long distances, we just need to encode that neural information in a way, in a medium, that is not distance dependent. It would yield results sooner than stem cells, as the science is far more advanced in that realm. I gave the example of cochlear implants transforming mechanic data. The eye transforms electromagnetic data to electrochemical data.

[dr.zapp]

There is this project here- Utah array I have talked with Dr. Normann (I work @ the same university) and thereare some significant hurdles in the translation of signals. Turns out that we don't know nearly as much as we thought we did about ion channels and signal transmission. Some are so subtle it is currently impossible to detect them above background. Then there is the sheer number... this analogy needs to be more in the 100,000s of highway lanes to get the picture. To reconnect even half of those, you would need techniques of micro-surgery that are more akin to making CPUs. It could be you can function with a lot less... but still, I think getting Intel or AMD involved would bring the kind of microelectronics needed for this to work. Bio-engineering is a good field to be in right now.

[Cripply]

Originally Posted by dr.zapp

There is this project here- Utah array I have talked with Dr. Normann (I work @ the same university) and thereare some significant hurdles in the translation of signals. Turns out that we don't know nearly as much as we thought we did about ion channels and signal transmission. Some are so subtle it is currently impossible to detect them above background. Then there is the sheer number... this analogy needs to be more in the 100,000s of highway lanes to get the picture. To reconnect even half of those, you would need techniques of micro-surgery that are more akin to making CPUs. It could be you can function with a lot less... but still, I think getting Intel or AMD involved would bring the kind of microelectronics needed for this to work. Bio-engineering is a good field to be in right now.

Yep, you grasp my idea. However we are further ahead than you think, the problem is that some disciplines are unaware of the developments in other disciplines. The number of lanes would be irrelevant. Think of how many people said it would be impossible to store the data of the genome due to its number...it was no problem at all. I wish there would be research groups working on this. Of course, like you say, we could achieve rudimentary transmisison at first, i.e., moving large muscle groups w/o much finesse, and improve from there.

[Cripply]

"To reconnect even half of those, you would need techniques of micro-surgery "

Again, there is no need to reconnect anything physically

[t8burst]

Originally Posted by Cripply

"To reconnect even half of those, you would need techniques of micro-surgery "

Again, there is no need to reconnect anything physically

Really? How do you connect the device to both ends of the severed spinal cord? How do you insure that the parts of the cord joined to the device think they are connected to just more spinal cord and not build scar tissue or some other barrier between the cord/device interface. It seems to me the position of an electrical impulse (a neron) must be translated to the exact position on the other end of the device so whatever is butting against the raw nerve must have millions of these devices that can convert electro/chemical energy to an analog signal and then back. My guess is that each has to be full duplex since I doubt we can rely on a nerve passing information in one direction at a time only.

[594MOM]

sounds like InVivo is working on that. now we have to wait for the politicians to decide whats more important, SCI repair or a party in Vegas???
http://www.invivotherapeutics.com/

[Cripply]

Originally Posted by t8burst

Really? How do you connect the device to both ends of the severed spinal cord? How do you insure that the parts of the cord joined to the device think they are connected to just more spinal cord and not build scar tissue or some other barrier between the cord/device interface. It seems to me the position of an electrical impulse (a neron) must be translated to the exact position on the other end of the device so whatever is butting against the raw nerve must have millions of these devices that can convert electro/chemical energy to an analog signal and then back. My guess is that each has to be full duplex since I doubt we can rely on a nerve passing information in one direction at a time only.

t8burst, your responses are a bit strident, and it is obvious that you have not understood a word of what I have posted. probably I have not explained myself correctly.
Are you by any chance connected by a cable to the satellite sending signals to your phone? Same idea here. No connection needed.
This is a new idea and nobody is working on anything similar. But they should.

[t8burst]

Originally Posted by Cripply

t8burst, your responses are a bit strident, and it is obvious that you have not understood a word of what I have posted. probably I have not explained myself correctly.
Are you by any chance connected by a cable to the satellite sending signals to your phone? Same idea here. No connection needed.
This is a new idea and nobody is working on anything similar. But they should.

Sorry if I sound strident but you aren't making sense. First off satellite don't send signals to phones, cell towers to. However lets take your example. For me to use what comes from the "satellite" on my phone there has to be an antenna that picks up that signal, the information in that transmission is then converted through quite a bit of complex electronics to either the text message, audio, web page or whatever you are using your phone for. The fact that this happens over the air and not via a wired connection is really a very small piece of the puzzle, but to answer your question yes they are connected in a very real sense. There is a logical virtual circuit between your cell phone and the cell company. This is what allows a cell tower to service more than one person. In a very similar way you would have to take the signal that tells your foot that it has a nail sticking in it and connect it from one side of the break in the spinal cord through your device to the other side and at the same time take the information that you want to contract the 5 or 6 odd muscles to pull your foot off the nail from the other side of the break in the spinal core through your device to the correct "connections" on the other side of the break. During this whole process of course you are getting lots of other information, may be you have to pee, maybe you have a bad case of jock itch and your balls are really bugging you. Lots of data back and forth and it is imperative that it gets taken from the interface of one end of the break/transcoded to a format you can transmit (using wireless over a 1 inch distance is silly, use some sort of direct connection) then receive on the other end and decode and excite the correct neurons on the other side.

uh exactly what kind of "Dr" are you btw?

[alhavel]

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These do, we used them off shore fishing, they were a lot bigger befor I got hurt.

[Cripply]

Originally Posted by t8burst

Sorry if I sound strident but you aren't making sense. First off satellite don't send signals to phones, cell towers to. However lets take your example. For me to use what comes from the "satellite" on my phone there has to be an antenna that picks up that signal, the information in that transmission is then converted through quite a bit of complex electronics to either the text message, audio, web page or whatever you are using your phone for. The fact that this happens over the air and not via a wired connection is really a very small piece of the puzzle, but to answer your question yes they are connected in a very real sense. There is a logical virtual circuit between your cell phone and the cell company. This is what allows a cell tower to service more than one person. In a very similar way you would have to take the signal that tells your foot that it has a nail sticking in it and connect it from one side of the break in the spinal cord through your device to the other side and at the same time take the information that you want to contract the 5 or 6 odd muscles to pull your foot off the nail from the other side of the break in the spinal core through your device to the correct "connections" on the other side of the break. During this whole process of course you are getting lots of other information, may be you have to pee, maybe you have a bad case of jock itch and your balls are really bugging you. Lots of data back and forth and it is imperative that it gets taken from the interface of one end of the break/transcoded to a format you can transmit (using wireless over a 1 inch distance is silly, use some sort of direct connection) then receive on the other end and decode and excite the correct neurons on the other side.

uh exactly what kind of "Dr" are you btw?

Ignore my posts if you have nothing constructive to say. I will do the same with yours. There is something very elementary school like in your confrontational responses,
It would be easy for me to enter a scientific debate, but unfair. And debates require politeness and an open mind anyway.