Invacare Storm3 True Track, help needed

[MViper]

Hello and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone!

Any experiences here with gearless true track motors?

Let me tell you my story:

I'm 32 years old, "gifted" with spinal muscual atrophy, coming from Slovenia. This is my second Invacare product, the first Storm3 that I've had was built in 2003 with standard geared 8 mph (12kmh) motors. Lovely chair, realiable, fast, agile, miss it very much. But because I've lost drive shaft in 2008 I was adviced by my local Invacare reseller/service that I should look into a new powered wheelchair. The old Storm3 was supposed to become slowely but surely unreliable, a lot of the parts would need to be exchanged and so on (bollocks, the chair is still driving around today with much more ruthless and not very gentle user). At that time Storm4 was arriving, but they couldn't provide me 8 mph version with some other minor addons (and to be honest I wasn't fan of a brand new chair - reliability wise), so I decided (friends were all extremely excited by truetrack tehnology) for Storm3 true track. I was well adjusted and happy with old Storm3 so I've thought it's a win-win situation - Top motors, adjustable like I want and lastly it was still nice design which I prefered over 4. I KNEW about motor problems (only slowly releasing brake problem, but all in all no danger at all of loosing the drive or complete shutdown), 5 years warranty, exchange when I want and so on. I was convinced, it's gotta be nice chair. Nobody mentioned terrible reliability (except for the motors which I knew before) so I've ordered it. The wheelchair total price was around 10.000 GBP, insurance company approved (for my type of disease) around 4.500 GBP, the difference was paid by me. Because of my disease and a bit of luxury I've ordered 8 mph version, with completely powered seat and leg holders (not sure if it's the right word).

The problems began when the chair arrived. The brakes weren't holding me in the car, it was that non pleasent squeaky sound and when the car accelerated I was all over the van. The lovely repairmen were confused, looking at each other, didn't know what to do. They've told me, if this problem persists I should comeback for motor replacements. But after a while the brakes started to hold me just nice and was pretty happy with it (the only thing I hate is you practically can't do any steering when full speed, you need to slow down and steer, thank you TTrack, you rubbish piece of #!$#). I'm being extremly gently with my chairs, I know they're my legs, my muscle power, my everything, FFS, I avoid even puddles on a roads. But after 14 months my powered tilt went out (on my previous storm3 I've also had tilt and lift and it was doing just fine for 6 years). Heck, it happens, what can I do, lucky my insurance will cover it (I've got around 2.200 GBP available for repairs from the insurance company (something like 50% of the sum they've approved). But 2 weeks after the tilt was repaired I got stuck in a hospital. Storm completely died on me. What happened? Power module went off. Great. But luckily I've had 2 years of warranty. Those 2 problems arose back in 2009. Now it's 2010 and I'm having the same problems again. Tilt out, after couple of weeks, power module out. Because the warranty is out (only 1 year after first repair) I've now got only around 500 GPB remaining for future repairs. And my chair is not even 3 years old! The insurance only approves funding for a new chair after 5 years.

So, I'm angry and confused at the same time. I'm not relaxed on this chair, everytime I go somewhere I live in fear of chair breaking down again and looks like I'll have to pay a fortune for repairs in this 5 years time I'll have to own it. I also don't have any spare powered wheelchair. I had one (sunrise F50s) at a time of the first Storm3, but since it almost never broke down in 6 years time, I've sold them both when I got my new Storm3. Oh, what a mistake.

[jakeyboy1]

Hi Viper,
Sorry to hear about your problems. I work in a shop in the US. I have worked on hundreds of wheelchairs. Here is my $.02

When you first experienced problems with your GB's you should have had them replaced. The brakes are big magnets inside the motors. It sounds like they were stuck open. (this doesn't happen very often, I have only seen it twice)

Regarding slowing down to turn: that is a programming issue, not a motor problem. You need to put your forward speed to 95% (truetrack works by speeding up the slower motor, if you have it set at 100% there is nothing to speed up) Also, simply turning up "turning speed" will allow you to turn faster. (you will need a programmer to do this)

Power module went off. I assume you mean "controller", (the devise mounted under the chair) where all the wires come together. The weak point on the TTrack (GB system) is where the motors plug into the controller. Most times when you have a controller problem, it is because the motors aren't plugged all the way and create a short.

Tilt out: Got nothing for you, motors break. I've seen most people go years with no problems. Then one out of 25, need their actuator replaced every other year.

On a side note, most electronics can be sent into Invacare to be rebuilt.... fraction of the cost of new (4 week wait however)

[Van Quad]

jakeyboy1 I was in Invacare fan for years until my current Invacare torque. It has been a disaster since day one. And the tilt was the first thing to go.

[MSWIFE1]

and I have had to replace the tilt actuator probably six times in one year for my hubby. Got so bad I finally found several used ones on ebay and now have a stock pile of them. When ever I see a used one I buy it cause it never fails LOL I mean it always fails!

[MViper]

Originally Posted by jakeyboy1

Hi Viper,
Sorry to hear about your problems. I work in a shop in the US. I have worked on hundreds of wheelchairs. Here is my $.02

When you first experienced problems with your GB's you should have had them replaced. The brakes are big magnets inside the motors. It sounds like they were stuck open. (this doesn't happen very often, I have only seen it twice)

Regarding slowing down to turn: that is a programming issue, not a motor problem. You need to put your forward speed to 95% (truetrack works by speeding up the slower motor, if you have it set at 100% there is nothing to speed up) Also, simply turning up "turning speed" will allow you to turn faster. (you will need a programmer to do this)

Power module went off. I assume you mean "controller", (the devise mounted under the chair) where all the wires come together. The weak point on the TTrack (GB system) is where the motors plug into the controller. Most times when you have a controller problem, it is because the motors aren't plugged all the way and create a short.

Tilt out: Got nothing for you, motors break. I've seen most people go years with no problems. Then one out of 25, need their actuator replaced every other year.

On a side note, most electronics can be sent into Invacare to be rebuilt.... fraction of the cost of new (4 week wait however)

jakeyboy1:

Steering:
The chair is programmed, my "4" and "5" profile are both at 95% forward speed. Except "5" has more turning speed. But comparing to the classic motors it steers like a tanker when full speed. Even in dealership they've told me to "forget" about full speed steering. When going full speed, if I go full right/left the chair first slows down at (i don't know exactly) around 3-4 mph and than it steers. I've almost crashed into couple of byciclists in my first couple of days

Controller:
Yes, you're right. Controller. Short? But I've been told (from ex-Invacare repairmen) this: First year when they were selling TT's, they've had 11 problems out of 11 sold wheelchairs. All had controller problems. Every last of them in the first year. Invacare arranged free modules for every sold chair but this arrangement was only valid for a year or two. After that it was user's problem. What do you think?

Do I have to change my driving tehnique or anything to preserve controller?

Tilt:
No no, the motor was OK on both occasions. The screwthread became flat. I was amazed because I always drive with a lowered tilt outdoors. And I'm being even more gentle here than on my first Storm3.


Didn't know this about rebuilding old components. They are always selling me brand new parts for a top price and I have to wait from 2 - 4 even 6 weeks sometimes.

The price of controller here is 1,137 EUR which roughly equals to 1,460 USD. Any way I could buy second hand for a much better price?

[jakeyboy1]

You can rebuild the controller for 200-400 US. (most funding sources won't pay for rebuilts, only private pay)

I haven't experienced the controller problem here in the US that you are referring to.

Steering: I have not experienced what you are talking about. Here is what I recommend. Get a programmer, make some changes, try it out then repeat until you are happy. I have gotten a GB chair up on two wheels while turning before.... (they can turn really fast)

Tilt going out: If any actuator goes out more then twice, it is a mounting problem. Meaning; the actuator isn't mounted straight and it is binding and wearing out.

[MViper]

Originally Posted by jakeyboy1

You can rebuild the controller for 200-400 US. (most funding sources won't pay for rebuilts, only private pay)

I haven't experienced the controller problem here in the US that you are referring to.

Steering: I have not experienced what you are talking about. Here is what I recommend. Get a programmer, make some changes, try it out then repeat until you are happy. I have gotten a GB chair up on two wheels while turning before.... (they can turn really fast)

Tilt going out: If any actuator goes out more then twice, it is a mounting problem. Meaning; the actuator isn't mounted straight and it is binding and wearing out.

I Just hope 200-400 USD isn't 400-500 EUR here in EU. Do you maybe know, does US controllers fits to EU model?

I really can't figure out why Invacare EU abandoned TT programme, while in USA everything is running smoothly.

Wheelie in TT?? No way?! I could do a smallish wheelie with my old Storm3 EU with 2 pole engines (back, than full forward with 95% accelerate settings), but with TT it's impossible, acceleration is worse, high speed steering is worse, the only thing that's better than old model is silent motor, battery life and torque on kerbs. But it's programmed (the software looks roughly as MS Excel and than you edit percentages of different modes (acceleration, steering, stopping), right? Is my TT Storm defected or what.. I know my model came from Germany, but it's all the same for Europe, right?

No no, on both occasion it was ruined screwthread. I really don't know how or why.

And the pic of the darn thing:

[MSWIFE1]

My hubbys tilt actuator actually melts wires. Has several times.

[MViper]

Originally Posted by jakeyboy1

You can rebuild the controller for 200-400 US. (most funding sources won't pay for rebuilts, only private pay)

I haven't experienced the controller problem here in the US that you are referring to.

Steering: I have not experienced what you are talking about. Here is what I recommend. Get a programmer, make some changes, try it out then repeat until you are happy. I have gotten a GB chair up on two wheels while turning before.... (they can turn really fast)

Tilt going out: If any actuator goes out more then twice, it is a mounting problem. Meaning; the actuator isn't mounted straight and it is binding and wearing out.

I've just found out about rebuilding the unit. It's supposed to be too expensive, because the Invacare sends it to New Zealand for repairs and it's cheaper to buy a new one. Go figure.

[Timaru]

Your controller is made by this company, they are a wholly owned subsidiary of Invacare.

They do have a factory in New Zealand but an email to the English factory may bring results.

http://www.dynamiccontrols.com/

Dynamic Europe Limited

Unit 7, Finepoint Way
Kidderminster
Worcestershire
DY11 7FB
United Kingdom
GB VAT No. 487 3377 02,
Registered in England No. 2385287

Phone: +44 1562 826 600
Fax: +44 1562 824 694

Product Information:
euinfo@dynamiccontrols.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Sales:
eusales@dynamiccontrols.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Customer Support:
eusupport@dynamiccontrols.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Service/Repairs:
euservice@dynamiccontrols.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it