combination poll

[DA]

novartis will start in-1 trials when george bush great great great great great great great great great grandson is president. as they say in new york about in-1, FORGET ABOUT IT.


jeff, what about rolipram and modified oeg...at least rolipram is in trials. or maybe rolipram and schwann, both are in trials. just a suggestion

[Jeff]

I say IN-1 not because of its technical merits but because it has the most animal data so far. I don't know as much about rollipram. If the new and improved IN-1 works even better than the one shown to work in chronic rat then it should help do the trick.

I've given up on Schwann cells. They don't migrate from the injury site and thus cannot encourage regeneration for any distance. OEG can do their magic all the way down the cord [I hope].

~See you at the SCIWire-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion ~

[Christopher Paddon]

As I have said elsewhere, I think Geoffrey Raisman has achieved regeneration in the spinal cord in contusion injuries using OEG cells (also without the need for brain surgery to acquire the cells) - perhaps he has not published the results or method used - he certainly gave me permission to say on this forum that OEG cells can repair contusion injuries. I'm not sure about whether it's been done in chronic injuries - certainly not yet in humans - multiplying the few OEG cells obtained into the much larger number needed for human injuries is one problem. Also how to apply them to each of the tracts required in humans - you don't want just down messages going to your legs without up messages to sense the movement or to have no bladder, bowel and sex sensation.

I think it may illustrate what Wise said on another thread, ie that one dream team of scientists would all work on the same approach and get nowhere. That's why it's necessary for the true geniuses like Wise, Raisman etc to work to some degree in isolation from each other so that each group will come up with ideas that the other may not think of.

Perhaps a combination of ideas from all these groups or just one just one technique will help us hopefully sooner rather than later - I think it's all a bit of guess work on our (non-scientists) behalves though.

I'm not saying it's not fun to speculate though.

Surely these OEG cells are uniquely pre made for the job of growing axons which is why I'd include them in my guess of future treatments, in combination with other treatments or not.

Chris

[pecla]

He wrote me today that "he has superb (still unpublished) evidence that OECs cause major functional benefit in spinal lesions. We are starting to test human material, and I believe that we will see clinical trials (and successful ones) in the next 2-3 years. But, of course, it is only a belief. No one knows the truth or the future."

But he is less preserved about human trials than 4 months earlier when I asked him also about human trials, so I guess he has made good progress in the last months.But the most positive was that he said that the human trials should be for contusion and transection models and, most important, for CHRONICS as well.

So more good news about OEG I think, especially that he is so optimistic about the results!

[Jeff]

I just hope OEG are available commercially from a safe, capable clinic or hospital in the near term. Imagine if Russia figured it out and started treating people successfully? I'd be on my way in a flash!!

This is great news! Long live olfactory ensheathing glial cells! And I bet those modified OEG really kick some butt!

Just think, DA, if you get a second job and sell a few more wheelchairs you could possibly be getting an advance cure treatment in a year or two!

~See you at the SCIWire-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion ~

[DA]

what do you think of poll results so far. i was surprised at the AC getting so high.

[Wise Young]

I am really impressed by this poll. It tells me that people have really been thinking a lot about the therapies. Wise.

[X-racer...]

OK, I've been reading this post with some interest but have been looking at combo trials and trial as such a little bit different. now some may say this is short sighted but when you look at OEG, M1, L1, C3 INHIBITOR OF RHO, SCHWANN CELLS, INOSINE, ROLLIPRAM, VACCINE'S, AC, NOGO, IN-1, STEM CELLS, 4A-P, AIT-082, MP, ENTERIC GLIAL CELLS, MINOCYCLINE ANTIBIOTIC, PRONEURON, DIACRIN, RADIAL GLIAL CELLS, TREADMILL TRAINING, BIO FEEDBACK, DR CHEN etc, now I'm sure I missed a couple but these were all I could dig up in my head. Before people jump on me and say were is DR KAO, RUSSIAN Tx, etc., I left those out on purpose because from the out side looking in those treatments don't appear to be heading in the direction of a clinical trials which would or could be approved by a sanctioning body making the treatment available to the masses (those without $$$ to travel abroad). OK now back to my point, each one of the above needs to be proven effective or not in clinical trials by themselves before a combo of any two or three can be effectively looked at. The variables of just one unproven drug or Tx. Creates a mass amount of data for researchers to prove or disprove a treatment effective. When you put two unproven things together the variables don't just double the expand exponentially. So what drugs or therapies do we have known tangible human clinical data from not just animal data? We have human data on MP, 4A-P, AIT-082 that has been analyzed giving known facts to clinicians from the completion of stage 1,2,3 clinical trials; DIACRIN, PRONEURON, TREADMILL TRAINING, and BIO FEEDBACK still haven't been completed or analyzed that I know of (yes I may be wrong). In my opinion the only things were could start looking into combo trials right now are, MP, 4A-P, AIT-082. So here's my trial actually it more of a collaboration with Accorda (4A-P) and Neotheraputics(AIT-082) than a combo trial. 4A-P works on SCI were the people have intact axons with damaged myelin AIT-082 increases NGF and the increase in production of adult stem cell (according to Neotheraputic) which in turn is supposed to cause axons to grow. Question does AIT-082 cause just spouting of axons without a myelin sheet or with? So lets take people from Accorda's 4A-P trials that did respond to 4A-P, we know they have intact axons with myelin damage and the benefits or increase in function or sensation of 4A-P have been documented. We take Accorda's pts. off 4A-P and put them on AIT-082 for lets say 6 months then evaluate their motor and sensory functions. IF their is an increase in funtion/sensation similar to what they saw on 4A-P you would think AIT-082 remylinates axons. If no change happened put Accorda's pts back on 4A-P to see if they then gained just the same benefits as before or more which would then lead you to believe AIT-082 caused axons to sprout without a myelin sheet. Hopefully you would see both axon growth with remylination. The benefit of this trial would be to both companies and SCI, Accorda's 4A-P could be labeled as a diagnostic tool to SCI plus the benefit (if documented) of AIT-082 could be more directly understood and the SCI would have a tangible chance to improve our lives. Just my two cents

"Death smiles upon us ever minute of ever hour of every day, live life so your always smiling back" By X-racer

[This message was edited by X-racer... on February 07, 2002 at 07:04 PM.]