How fast would these politicians act if a biochemical attack

Felps · 10-31-2001, 07:18 PM

would hit America and the only hope for a antidote would be the research from stem cells. Then it would be a different story when it affects a greater number of people. Wonder what Jerry Falwell would say then. I have had it with this paralyzed shit. I had to buy a part for my wheelchair, the same part that I replaced in May for $77, now it cost $166. A box of depends adult wipes that can be bought for $4.47 at wal*mart, my drug store charges $10.60 to my insurance company. It took me three months to get a approval on a replacement of a lift for my van, but it only took 7 yrs for the company to jack the price up 40% (bethlehem steel is going bankrupt due to falling steel prices, but steel lifts go up). They say stem cells destroys life, but any woman can kill an unborn child up to 4 months old. They say we must fight terrorism whereever it may be. Well teenagers bring guns to school and shoot to kill. They still haven't solved that problem. When aids was a major factor, they said teach the kids sex. Well now we have kids having more sex, and smoking a cigarette when their finished. Give them condoms they say, well now we have the biggest outbreak of Chlamydia. Give teachers more money they say, well now we have Pepsi and Pizza Hut in every school to fatten up our youth, so we can pay for teachers to sit on their asses. It goes on and on......Lets take our cure to CANADA

etexley · 11-05-2001, 09:38 AM

I must say, I am really unimpressed by the progress which has been made in dealing with these biochemical attacks. People have lossed their lives because the U.S. government chose to downplay the risk. And after almost a month, they don't have any leads on who is responsible for the repeated anthrax attacks....I can GUARANTEE there are some clues out there. What does the FBI do all day...Drink coffee???

Thanks anyway, but I'd rather have the stem cell puzzle pieced together by private business.

Eric Texley

Wise Young · 11-05-2001, 11:47 AM

How do you stop a person from sending out mail containing anthrax? How do you find a person who is doing so? Fighting terrorism in a free country is difficult precisely because people can do what they want in the privacy of their home, can jump into their car and drive 24 hours half-way across the country to mail off a couple of letters, and then go into hiding.

Do you remember the guy who did the bombing in Atlanta and then disappeared into the woods of Georgia or North Carolina? The FBI had thousands of people looking for the guy and they have still not found him. How about the Unibomber? He was sending letter bombs to prominent people for over ten years! He wasn't caught until his own brother turned him in. In the United States, it is easy to hide as long as you have a good story and keep your mouth shut. So, it may be a long while before they find the person who is mailing the anthrax letters.

On the other hand, I think that the person who is doing the letters is not very smart. Several of the mailings have gone to specific individuals that the person must have had personal relationships with. The mailing points of the letters provide clues concerning the person's whereabouts. Sooner or later, they will flush the person out. They just need a lucky break in the case.

I don't know how much that the anthrax terror is costing us (the citizens of the United States) but it must add up to many billions of dollars.
We must not panic and over-react, or else we will lose this war. This includes getting prophylactic prescriptions of Cipro, running around in gas masks, and stopping travelling. If we waste billions on unneeded antibiotics, put our retail and travel industry into a deep slump, and live in fear, the terrorists will have won.

Wise.

Felps · 11-05-2001, 05:03 PM

I have seen on CNN an interview of some scientist claiming that they "learned more about anthrax in the past month than they learned in the past." What in the world was the gov't doing with this anthrax, just letting it sit around wasting our tax dollars while now they learned that it can be that fine it can pass through the pours of a paper envelope. This is another example on how our gov't has been wasting money. So, let the FBI work on it. Whom among others are some of the biggest crooks in gov't. I am not anti USA. I luv this country, but it is filled with so much greed. Healthcare is the biggest example, but anything tied to gov't, and everybody has their hand out. Now we are at war, and hollywood has to acknowledge the young men whom have been the real celebrities for the history of America, but hey they only fight wars, but Hollywood makes movies, therefore stars get 20 million a movie and a soldier has to fight just for 200 a week.

alan · 11-05-2001, 05:20 PM

As big a deal as the media and politicians have made over anthrax, it's nothing compared to what would happen if some deadly communicable disease was being spread. It's amazing how little respect some people have for their fellow human beings, just because they believe differently or look different.

Jeff · 11-05-2001, 07:21 PM

all the UTIs of the SCI community precipitated the development of Cipro and now we have a great anti-biotic useful for many different kinds infections. I just hate to see it used widely and resistant bacteria develop. We need Cipro for UTIs. Use the others that work for Anthrax! I've had an infection that was resistant to everything but IV antibiotics. It was pretty damn scary.

~See you at the SCIWire-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion

~

etexley · 11-06-2001, 05:45 AM

What do we know? #1. The anthrax looks very much like it originated in the united states...this was in the papers. Despite the fact that the current administration is trying like mad to implicate Sadam H., there are certain characteristics of the spores which make it look like it came from a U.S. Lab. I can't name these off hand, but I know I read it in the papers.

#2 Enquiries were being made into renting crop duster airplanes. We must therefore assume that the terrorists have a large amount of anthrax.

#3 There is a handwritten note from the terrorist. What kind of personality profile can be constructed from the things on the note?

From the very beginning the choice was made to downplay the danger, rather than taking up arms against it. NIH got after the media for hyping it. I think we should take up arms against things that are a "clear and present danger"...forget about bombing starving children.

Eric Texley

Wise Young · 11-06-2001, 06:20 AM

Eric,

The strain of anthrax that was used in the letters is closely related to or is derived from very old Anthrax spores found in Iowa (the spores were isolated along the wagon train trail going across America). Called the Ames strain (probably because it was found in Ames, Iowa), this strain of anthrax has been available to researchers since World War II. Any person could have gotten some spores, taken it anywhere in the world, and grown up a batch.

As has been pointed out on many occasions, it is not easy to "weaponize" bacteria, i.e. to make it so that it is powdery and does not clump together. There are several methods by which this is done. The U.S. developed a method in the 1960's. Apparently, Iraq developed a method as well. There has been much speculation about the coating on the spores. I suspect that more is known about this than is being published in the media.

The spores in the letter apparently are sufficiently fine that experts believe that they can only come from a laboratory that is very capable and has experienced to make such fine non-clumping powder. Although Anthrax exist (and is one of the most studied bacteria) in many university laboratories, I believe that the very fine powder form is something that only a very specialized lab can make. This is not something that can be done in one's garage.

The FBI has contacted and visited all laboratories in the U.S. that are capable of making anthrax. I know that they have interviewed all the laboratories at Rutgers University that might have any kind of hazardous biological or chemical material. The laboratory that made this anthrax must be overseas. Most fingers are pointing at Iraq who undoubtedly has weaponized anthrax and has long invested in biological and chemical weaponry.

Wise.

11-05-2001, 05:03 PM	#4
Felps Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 88	Anthrax I have seen on CNN an interview of some scientist claiming that they "learned more about anthrax in the past month than they learned in the past." What in the world was the gov't doing with this anthrax, just letting it sit around wasting our tax dollars while now they learned that it can be that fine it can pass through the pours of a paper envelope. This is another example on how our gov't has been wasting money. So, let the FBI work on it. Whom among others are some of the biggest crooks in gov't. I am not anti USA. I luv this country, but it is filled with so much greed. Healthcare is the biggest example, but anything tied to gov't, and everybody has their hand out. Now we are at war, and hollywood has to acknowledge the young men whom have been the real celebrities for the history of America, but hey they only fight wars, but Hollywood makes movies, therefore stars get 20 million a movie and a soldier has to fight just for 200 a week.

11-05-2001, 07:21 PM	#6
Jeff Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Brunswick, NJ, USA Posts: 6,858	I think... all the UTIs of the SCI community precipitated the development of Cipro and now we have a great anti-biotic useful for many different kinds infections. I just hate to see it used widely and resistant bacteria develop. We need Cipro for UTIs. Use the others that work for Anthrax! I've had an infection that was resistant to everything but IV antibiotics. It was pretty damn scary. ~See you at the SCIWire-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion ~

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10-31-2001, 07:18 PM	#1
Felps Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 88	How fast would these politicians act if a biochemical attack would hit America and the only hope for a antidote would be the research from stem cells. Then it would be a different story when it affects a greater number of people. Wonder what Jerry Falwell would say then. I have had it with this paralyzed shit. I had to buy a part for my wheelchair, the same part that I replaced in May for $77, now it cost $166. A box of depends adult wipes that can be bought for $4.47 at wal*mart, my drug store charges $10.60 to my insurance company. It took me three months to get a approval on a replacement of a lift for my van, but it only took 7 yrs for the company to jack the price up 40% (bethlehem steel is going bankrupt due to falling steel prices, but steel lifts go up). They say stem cells destroys life, but any woman can kill an unborn child up to 4 months old. They say we must fight terrorism whereever it may be. Well teenagers bring guns to school and shoot to kill. They still haven't solved that problem. When aids was a major factor, they said teach the kids sex. Well now we have kids having more sex, and smoking a cigarette when their finished. Give them condoms they say, well now we have the biggest outbreak of Chlamydia. Give teachers more money they say, well now we have Pepsi and Pizza Hut in every school to fatten up our youth, so we can pay for teachers to sit on their asses. It goes on and on......Lets take our cure to CANADA

11-05-2001, 09:38 AM	#2
etexley Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 1,446	Attack I must say, I am really unimpressed by the progress which has been made in dealing with these biochemical attacks. People have lossed their lives because the U.S. government chose to downplay the risk. And after almost a month, they don't have any leads on who is responsible for the repeated anthrax attacks....I can GUARANTEE there are some clues out there. What does the FBI do all day...Drink coffee??? Thanks anyway, but I'd rather have the stem cell puzzle pieced together by private business. Eric Texley

11-05-2001, 11:47 AM	#3
Wise Young Administrator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: New Brunswick, NJ, USA Posts: 37,975	How do you stop a person from sending out mail containing anthrax? How do you find a person who is doing so? Fighting terrorism in a free country is difficult precisely because people can do what they want in the privacy of their home, can jump into their car and drive 24 hours half-way across the country to mail off a couple of letters, and then go into hiding. Do you remember the guy who did the bombing in Atlanta and then disappeared into the woods of Georgia or North Carolina? The FBI had thousands of people looking for the guy and they have still not found him. How about the Unibomber? He was sending letter bombs to prominent people for over ten years! He wasn't caught until his own brother turned him in. In the United States, it is easy to hide as long as you have a good story and keep your mouth shut. So, it may be a long while before they find the person who is mailing the anthrax letters. On the other hand, I think that the person who is doing the letters is not very smart. Several of the mailings have gone to specific individuals that the person must have had personal relationships with. The mailing points of the letters provide clues concerning the person's whereabouts. Sooner or later, they will flush the person out. They just need a lucky break in the case. I don't know how much that the anthrax terror is costing us (the citizens of the United States) but it must add up to many billions of dollars. We must not panic and over-react, or else we will lose this war. This includes getting prophylactic prescriptions of Cipro, running around in gas masks, and stopping travelling. If we waste billions on unneeded antibiotics, put our retail and travel industry into a deep slump, and live in fear, the terrorists will have won. Wise.

11-05-2001, 05:20 PM	#5
alan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 6,169	As big a deal as the media and politicians have made over anthrax, it's nothing compared to what would happen if some deadly communicable disease was being spread. It's amazing how little respect some people have for their fellow human beings, just because they believe differently or look different.

11-06-2001, 05:45 AM	#7
etexley Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 1,446	What do we know? #1. The anthrax looks very much like it originated in the united states...this was in the papers. Despite the fact that the current administration is trying like mad to implicate Sadam H., there are certain characteristics of the spores which make it look like it came from a U.S. Lab. I can't name these off hand, but I know I read it in the papers. #2 Enquiries were being made into renting crop duster airplanes. We must therefore assume that the terrorists have a large amount of anthrax. #3 There is a handwritten note from the terrorist. What kind of personality profile can be constructed from the things on the note? From the very beginning the choice was made to downplay the danger, rather than taking up arms against it. NIH got after the media for hyping it. I think we should take up arms against things that are a "clear and present danger"...forget about bombing starving children. Eric Texley

11-06-2001, 06:20 AM	#8
Wise Young Administrator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: New Brunswick, NJ, USA Posts: 37,975	Eric, The strain of anthrax that was used in the letters is closely related to or is derived from very old Anthrax spores found in Iowa (the spores were isolated along the wagon train trail going across America). Called the Ames strain (probably because it was found in Ames, Iowa), this strain of anthrax has been available to researchers since World War II. Any person could have gotten some spores, taken it anywhere in the world, and grown up a batch. As has been pointed out on many occasions, it is not easy to "weaponize" bacteria, i.e. to make it so that it is powdery and does not clump together. There are several methods by which this is done. The U.S. developed a method in the 1960's. Apparently, Iraq developed a method as well. There has been much speculation about the coating on the spores. I suspect that more is known about this than is being published in the media. The spores in the letter apparently are sufficiently fine that experts believe that they can only come from a laboratory that is very capable and has experienced to make such fine non-clumping powder. Although Anthrax exist (and is one of the most studied bacteria) in many university laboratories, I believe that the very fine powder form is something that only a very specialized lab can make. This is not something that can be done in one's garage. The FBI has contacted and visited all laboratories in the U.S. that are capable of making anthrax. I know that they have interviewed all the laboratories at Rutgers University that might have any kind of hazardous biological or chemical material. The laboratory that made this anthrax must be overseas. Most fingers are pointing at Iraq who undoubtedly has weaponized anthrax and has long invested in biological and chemical weaponry. Wise.