Laser Therapy for SCI - When?

Ah Lun · 06-17-2012, 04:45 AM

As i know, study on laser therapy for SCI has been done since a long time ago, even since the era of President Reegan. I saw many studies on web. One study which is from Anders has been published since 10 years ago. That is study on rats. But i have not yet read about any clinical trials and treatment done on humans. I don't understand why it takes so long time. Anybody knows why? Any issues and problems? Can't laser therapy for human be feasible?

From my visualization, laser is hard to reach human's spinal cord from outside. Thru skin? If thru bone, it's even harder. If done in prolonged time, laser could even burn the skin and/or others. Long time ago a dr here told me that there was space between discs thru which laser could go. But i wonder to what extent. If a schematic diagram is shown to me, that will be better. I am afraid that laser can only get in touch with the peripheral nerves coming out from spinal cord. Since i have screws on spine, it is even harder.

I bought a commercial laser device for my sci in 2010. After i bought the device, i argued with them as i was skeptical whether they were sure whether their laser could reach my spinal cord. That is a laser device with a pair of showers, each having 5 modules emitting 808nm laser of 200mW from each module. The modules are widely apart in a big laser shower. I think the laser could not reach my sc effectively.

I returned the device to them. Originally i planned to change the laser showers with taping laser. But each module of laser produces merely laser of 80mW. I think this one produces laser of even weaker penetration. Those taping laser modules are designed for laserpuncture. Each module can work on one acupoint. But i am not confident at all whether that laserpuncture is workable on me if i change my method to laserpuncture. However, if i maintain using laser shower, i don't even know whether the laser can reach my spinal cord.

Whether i continue to use laser shower or change to use taping laser, they cannot explain to me; i think they don't know. But i am in great dilemma how to do. They understood my goal during early days. As they cannot explain to me, i think they cheated and trapped me.

In any way the laser device can be suited for my goal? When can laser therapy be done on patients for sci?

If laser therapy is done on rats, not humans, i can visualize that the work is a lot easier. Human's skeleton is so complicated. A rat is only as small as a palm; its bone and skin are so thin.

willingtocope · 06-17-2012, 01:45 PM

I'm 99% sure this is a scam. There is no way I can think of where a laser would do anything other than destroy tissue. It might be used to fuse bone together, but you could not do that from outside the skin.

Sue Pendleton · 06-18-2012, 09:04 PM

There are many kinds of lasers and at least one has gone on to trials in human stroke patients. Juanita Anders, PhD works with several other researchers around the world on their use in neuroscience applications. Might also check http://www.thorlaser.com/ and under Search in the upper right type in Spinal Cord Injury or Stroke. This is the first I've seen where a group is specifically trying to restore breathing in a cervical injury. Still using rats but hey... In pain after certain injuries untreatable before the lasers they produce can treat 'frozen shoulder' to a great degree. There are many kinds of lasers and these low light ones appear to have more uses than the lucrative beauty market.

chris arnold · 06-19-2012, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willingtocope

I'm 99% sure this is a scam. There is no way I can think of where a laser would do anything other than destroy tissue. It might be used to fuse bone together, but you could not do that from outside the skin.

Point taken here... but a laser is simply a single frequency slice from the em spectrum. That includes everything from high energy X-rays, (gamma radiation) through visible light to microwaves and radio. From nm to many km.

willingtocope · 06-19-2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris arnold

Point taken here... but a laser is simply a single frequency slice from the em spectrum. That includes everything from high energy X-rays, (gamma radiation) through visible light to microwaves and radio. From nm to many km.

Agreed. But visible light lasers do not penetrate objects (like flesh) in the same way that x-rays do. i can see using a fiber optic optical laser inserted in the brain to burn away scar tissue caused by a stroke, but you certainly couldn't do that by shining a laser on you scalp.

chris arnold · 06-21-2012, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willingtocope

Agreed. But visible light lasers do not penetrate objects (like flesh) in the same way that x-rays do. i can see using a fiber optic optical laser inserted in the brain to burn away scar tissue caused by a stroke, but you certainly couldn't do that by shining a laser on you scalp.

But would it need to be visible? The point is that the em spectrum is largely non visible.

willingtocope · 06-21-2012, 12:15 PM

It is true that some laser-like machines do not use visible light. Masers, for example, use microwaves. There are infra-red laser devices that basically emit heat...doctors use those in place of scalpels (sp?) to cut thru skin and cauterize the blood flow at the same time.

But, the point is, if this device emits just a visible light...it ain't going to help.

06-17-2012, 04:45 AM	#1
Ah Lun Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Asia Posts: 18	Laser Therapy for SCI - When? As i know, study on laser therapy for SCI has been done since a long time ago, even since the era of President Reegan. I saw many studies on web. One study which is from Anders has been published since 10 years ago. That is study on rats. But i have not yet read about any clinical trials and treatment done on humans. I don't understand why it takes so long time. Anybody knows why? Any issues and problems? Can't laser therapy for human be feasible? From my visualization, laser is hard to reach human's spinal cord from outside. Thru skin? If thru bone, it's even harder. If done in prolonged time, laser could even burn the skin and/or others. Long time ago a dr here told me that there was space between discs thru which laser could go. But i wonder to what extent. If a schematic diagram is shown to me, that will be better. I am afraid that laser can only get in touch with the peripheral nerves coming out from spinal cord. Since i have screws on spine, it is even harder. I bought a commercial laser device for my sci in 2010. After i bought the device, i argued with them as i was skeptical whether they were sure whether their laser could reach my spinal cord. That is a laser device with a pair of showers, each having 5 modules emitting 808nm laser of 200mW from each module. The modules are widely apart in a big laser shower. I think the laser could not reach my sc effectively. I returned the device to them. Originally i planned to change the laser showers with taping laser. But each module of laser produces merely laser of 80mW. I think this one produces laser of even weaker penetration. Those taping laser modules are designed for laserpuncture. Each module can work on one acupoint. But i am not confident at all whether that laserpuncture is workable on me if i change my method to laserpuncture. However, if i maintain using laser shower, i don't even know whether the laser can reach my spinal cord. Whether i continue to use laser shower or change to use taping laser, they cannot explain to me; i think they don't know. But i am in great dilemma how to do. They understood my goal during early days. As they cannot explain to me, i think they cheated and trapped me. In any way the laser device can be suited for my goal? When can laser therapy be done on patients for sci? If laser therapy is done on rats, not humans, i can visualize that the work is a lot easier. Human's skeleton is so complicated. A rat is only as small as a palm; its bone and skin are so thin. Last edited by Ah Lun; 06-17-2012 at 07:21 AM.

06-18-2012, 09:04 PM	#3
Sue Pendleton Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Wisconsin USA Posts: 9,172	There are many kinds of lasers and at least one has gone on to trials in human stroke patients. Juanita Anders, PhD works with several other researchers around the world on their use in neuroscience applications. Might also check http://www.thorlaser.com/ and under Search in the upper right type in Spinal Cord Injury or Stroke. This is the first I've seen where a group is specifically trying to restore breathing in a cervical injury. Still using rats but hey... In pain after certain injuries untreatable before the lasers they produce can treat 'frozen shoulder' to a great degree. There are many kinds of lasers and these low light ones appear to have more uses than the lucrative beauty market. __________________ Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "I will try again tomorrow." Disclaimer: Answers, suggestions, and/or comments do not constitute medical advice expressed or implied and are based solely on my experiences as a SCI patient. Please consult your attending physician for medical advise and treatment. In the event of a medical emergency please call 911.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Low Level Laser Therapy	Geoman	Pain	0	06-03-2011 03:58 AM
laser therapy course	giambjj	Cure	0	06-05-2008 01:02 PM
low level laser therapy	giambjj	Cure	0	03-15-2007 08:51 AM
Benefits of Laser therapy for sci & other	Max	Cure	0	08-22-2005 12:29 PM
Laser Therapy	afrangos	Cure	9	04-24-2005 06:10 PM

06-17-2012, 01:45 PM	#2
willingtocope Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Pleasant Hill Iowa Posts: 702	I'm 99% sure this is a scam. There is no way I can think of where a laser would do anything other than destroy tissue. It might be used to fuse bone together, but you could not do that from outside the skin.

06-21-2012, 12:15 PM	#7
willingtocope Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Pleasant Hill Iowa Posts: 702	It is true that some laser-like machines do not use visible light. Masers, for example, use microwaves. There are infra-red laser devices that basically emit heat...doctors use those in place of scalpels (sp?) to cut thru skin and cauterize the blood flow at the same time. But, the point is, if this device emits just a visible light...it ain't going to help.