getting perfect measurements

heartdog · 09-21-2010, 04:46 AM

I'm so frustrated with this. I'm having a terrible time finding someone to measure me properly for a new chair- that is being donated to me. My current one is too tight a fit, very tippy, and has injured me numerous times. I'm going to be getting a TiLite, which I've never had.

There don't seem to be many PT places to go to, and I went to a private one, but am completely uncomfortable with the measurements. This has to be right!
There's only one Ti rep in CA, and he's not comfortable seeing me for this, wondering who's going to take delivery of the chair, do follow ups, etc. I have a vendor that I like, but having a hard time pinning them down as well.

Should it be done by only a PT, or is a vendor OK? I'm mainly unclear on a couple of points. Mostly angle of footrest, which the one I paid for said I should have 80 degrees. I know that's going to stick out too far, and make it hard to do things like cook, and roll up to the sink. I'll be hitting things all over. I have short legs, and have been strapping them in my angle is so severe now. But isn't there a way to keep 90 degrees (or 85, a good compromise) and make the overall wheelchair length a bit longer? Like to give more to grasp onto right in front of the seat? I can't get in my current chair when I fall to the ground. Not enough to grab onto and it tips forward very easily.

There's a few other things I'm unclear on, and to me, it seems talking to a TiLite expert would be optimal. All this is holding things up, meanwhile my chair is falling apart. I just find that it seems PTs dismiss a lot of my concerns, and think their decisions are right. But they're not the one in a chair.

I wish there was an article that explained what different choices with a wheelchair fit would mean. Like for me, with my pelvic tilt, too much dump is bad for pressure. So the least possible is good. Too much taper to the footrests, and it's bad for pressure on my rear end, too. It'd be really cool if there was a demo chair that you could fully adjust to feeling exactly right, then go by that.
But alas, I'm just having a hell of a time getting any help

So eager to get in this chair, that I've been dreaming to have for years!

Hype62 · 09-21-2010, 05:44 AM

If you want to get a chair with 90 degree front frame angle, I say go for it. With tilite chairs, 90 and 85 degree chairs will produce about the same chair length. Reason is that tilite will automatically add 1 inch extra length to the chair frame if 90 degree angle is selected, and this will also give you that extra grip room in front of the seat that you liked.

EastRando · 09-21-2010, 12:24 PM

You must demo. We can advise you and the PT or vendor can measure you, but the only way to know what you really need is to demo and fine-tune it for yourself. Ask for a demo chair that's adjustable (say a ZRA) that's got the measurements you think you need. Adjust it until it's optimal. If it still isn't good enough, get another demo with new measurements based on what you've learned.
TiLites do have an option to add an extra 1" (or more) to the frame. It would make the chair longer (and slightly extend the seat-to-footrest length) without changing the front angle.

jschism · 09-21-2010, 01:09 PM

the chair tipping when trying to get in it from floor takes a lot of practice to do without tipping chair forward. make sure casters are turned forward(like chair was rolling back). also the seat to floor height makes it difficult if too high. many dme's don't consider what you might want for seat to floor, why have a footplate 6" off ground? also don't want too low as transfers may become difficult. dme's seem to have a standard seat to floor they think is good and never ask, at least they've never asked me when i got my chairs
I'd call Tilite direct and ask them any questions you have about chair setup, screw the dme

heartdog · 09-21-2010, 01:56 PM

LOL screw the DME yeah amen to that. They sure do it to us. I'm so sick of it. Because the chair is being donated to me- thanks to Surf Dog Ricochet, a Golden Retriever that surfs with people with disabilities and raises a whole lot of funds by pawing it forward. http://surfdogricochet.com/Donors.ht...FOR%20TAMANDRA

The PT I paid to do the eval was supposed to redo it, along with a rep, but mysteriously didn't confirm the appointment, and the rep cancelled. Some confusion over a vendor being involved. So now the rep is uncomfortable being involved, not having this be a "normal" way it's done, like without a dealer being involved, I'd have difficulty finding someone to maintain and troubleshoot future problems. Everyone is just passing the buck or something.

You're all right, demoing would be the way to go. Even if the chair would be too wide, other things could be figured out. The PT had the chair pretty darn tall off the ground in measurements, and I'm very short. Height is nice for some things, but yeah, I do need to be able to get back in the chair. The footrests are already very far up off the ground, because I have Spina Bifida, and short legs. I need risers even, because a chair supposedly can't be made with that short a frame for my legs. (Though I have had them work in the past!)

So frustrating knowing TiLite can make this chair in around 10 days or so, and it's taking me now like 6 weeks to get over this part. Wish I could just fly up to TiLite myself and get it figured out!

amyk · 09-21-2010, 04:46 PM

heartdog, this is not your first chair, so im not sure you really need a pt eval or vendor to measure you. print off a copy of a tilite form - maybe a zr? then follow the measurement instructions exactly as written. sit in your present chair (its a razorblade, is it?) and redo everything. what i mean is that you should ignore that your seat width is 16 or whatever, and remeasure it according to tilite directions. then if you think you will need it different, add to or subtract from your measurement. you can do that for most of the measurements. like dump, or front angle. can you estimate how much tighter you want?

whatever measurements you get are only estimates! you can use them as a jumping-off point for further decisions. you are as likely (or more likely) to get accurate information on the ramifications of different settings and features here than you are from the average pt/vendor.
amy

heartdog · 09-21-2010, 05:43 PM

Amy, that's what I thought. The powerchair I got after measurements by a PT fits so badly it's ridiculous. I'm glad I posted : ) I do think a ZRA is best, in case I do need to make some little adjustments ? Though I like the way the ZR looks better. But they're both nice.

I asked about no dump, and was immediately told that was really bad, cuz I would fall forward easily. However, dump seems to really put a lot of pressure on my ichsial area. Because my spine curves so that I'm sitting mostly towards the front of my tush. Like having the Ride Designs custom cushion has been horrible, because it makes me go into that hole, and my legs splay out, and my spine curves even more. I sit up straightest with a solid seat under me, but of course, can't have that and not get pressure sores. Makes it hard to figure out what to do.

What do you think of seat depth, with a cushion. I'm in a 16" long, and it's hitting the back of my knees, but not horribly. It's almost like a 151/2 would be perfect, but they don't do that. 15" makes my legs not as stable and solid on the footrests. I love the hump between the knees on the Jay3, it keeps me straight and legs apart, which helps pressure. Not sure the gel is best, though. Doesn't seem to make a difference when I've tried air over the gel. I still start to hurt later in the day.

Dump also affect my propulsion efforts. I have 25" Spinergys, and if I raise up an inch, it's easier to push the Razorblade. A lot easier. I think the center of gravity is slightly off, too. This chair also has 4" casters, and I tip forward a LOT with even those. My old Invacare Titanium has 5", but the maneuverability suffers. But I don't face plant. Makes for some harder decisions, see? LOL

I do have the ZRA printout, with the PT's choices. Some are crossed out already, cuz she was like "this..no, this" really quickly : P

jschism · 09-21-2010, 06:07 PM

ditch the 25's, from what i've read on here they are harder to push, plus unless you are really tall(which you said you were not)they will trash your shoulders. sounds like you still need to find what you are comfortable with, so you definitely want to get an adjustable chair(ZRA)I would request your DME gets cushions for you to try, personally i hate Jay cushions, i have 2 in my closet. The stimulite contour works great for support, if you tend to lean to one side, the varilite proform Nx two chamber might be a good one to try. you can have more air in one side to help straighten out and it requires no pump. i also have an otto bock ComforT which i really like but it is heavy and quite pricey, it helps support weight over your butt and legs

wheeliegirl2010 · 09-21-2010, 06:08 PM

I just got my TiLite 2 weeks ago today actually. My DME measured me and he did a superb job. It is ok to have the vendor measure you, PTS are f***ing stupid most of the time anyway. You just need to find a DME you have confidence in and feel comfortable with. I can not stress enough the need to demo and if, when the chair arrives, it is not what you ordered/need DO NOT ACCEPT IT!!

Hope this helps!

WG

amyk · 09-21-2010, 06:25 PM

if you look at something like the zra, you can change he amount of dump as often as you like. i would find zero impossible to manage, but thats me. i would advise that unless youre absolutely sure you want it, dont order it on a non-adjustable chair.

in terms of seat depth, maybe you could go for a 15, and order an inch extra frame depth. but, youre normally told that there should be 1-2 inches between the back of your knee and the edge of your cushion. it sounds as though whoever measured you for the 16 got it wrong. that distance varies according to things like the front frame angle and location of the bend, but not that much! it is important to factor in how you transfer - like do you need to fit your fingers behind each knee to get a grip to move it? it may end up that a 14 is deep enough, with an extra inch so that if you bang into a table top, the tubes take the first impact rather than your knees.

09-21-2010, 04:46 AM	#1
heartdog Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 51	getting perfect measurements I'm so frustrated with this. I'm having a terrible time finding someone to measure me properly for a new chair- that is being donated to me. My current one is too tight a fit, very tippy, and has injured me numerous times. I'm going to be getting a TiLite, which I've never had. There don't seem to be many PT places to go to, and I went to a private one, but am completely uncomfortable with the measurements. This has to be right! There's only one Ti rep in CA, and he's not comfortable seeing me for this, wondering who's going to take delivery of the chair, do follow ups, etc. I have a vendor that I like, but having a hard time pinning them down as well. Should it be done by only a PT, or is a vendor OK? I'm mainly unclear on a couple of points. Mostly angle of footrest, which the one I paid for said I should have 80 degrees. I know that's going to stick out too far, and make it hard to do things like cook, and roll up to the sink. I'll be hitting things all over. I have short legs, and have been strapping them in my angle is so severe now. But isn't there a way to keep 90 degrees (or 85, a good compromise) and make the overall wheelchair length a bit longer? Like to give more to grasp onto right in front of the seat? I can't get in my current chair when I fall to the ground. Not enough to grab onto and it tips forward very easily. There's a few other things I'm unclear on, and to me, it seems talking to a TiLite expert would be optimal. All this is holding things up, meanwhile my chair is falling apart. I just find that it seems PTs dismiss a lot of my concerns, and think their decisions are right. But they're not the one in a chair. I wish there was an article that explained what different choices with a wheelchair fit would mean. Like for me, with my pelvic tilt, too much dump is bad for pressure. So the least possible is good. Too much taper to the footrests, and it's bad for pressure on my rear end, too. It'd be really cool if there was a demo chair that you could fully adjust to feeling exactly right, then go by that. But alas, I'm just having a hell of a time getting any help So eager to get in this chair, that I've been dreaming to have for years!

09-21-2010, 05:44 AM	#2
Hype62 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 428	If you want to get a chair with 90 degree front frame angle, I say go for it. With tilite chairs, 90 and 85 degree chairs will produce about the same chair length. Reason is that tilite will automatically add 1 inch extra length to the chair frame if 90 degree angle is selected, and this will also give you that extra grip room in front of the seat that you liked. __________________ May 2000, T4-5 Complete. Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Finally got some measurements!	sproutbeanie	Equipment	7	03-21-2010 06:57 PM
ZRa measurements for a C5/C6 Complete	iLkRehp	Equipment	13	03-06-2010 01:25 PM
need sme measurements	bungholebob	Equipment	0	11-24-2009 11:43 AM
Tennis Chair Measurements	OGD	Recreation, Sports, Travel, & Hobbies	3	02-20-2006 06:27 PM
chair/cushion measurements	bikerdave	Equipment	8	01-11-2006 01:37 PM

09-21-2010, 12:24 PM	#3
EastRando Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 264	You must demo. We can advise you and the PT or vendor can measure you, but the only way to know what you really need is to demo and fine-tune it for yourself. Ask for a demo chair that's adjustable (say a ZRA) that's got the measurements you think you need. Adjust it until it's optimal. If it still isn't good enough, get another demo with new measurements based on what you've learned. TiLites do have an option to add an extra 1" (or more) to the frame. It would make the chair longer (and slightly extend the seat-to-footrest length) without changing the front angle.

09-21-2010, 01:09 PM	#4
jschism Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: illinois, and no, chicago is not anywhere near where i live Posts: 1,931	the chair tipping when trying to get in it from floor takes a lot of practice to do without tipping chair forward. make sure casters are turned forward(like chair was rolling back). also the seat to floor height makes it difficult if too high. many dme's don't consider what you might want for seat to floor, why have a footplate 6" off ground? also don't want too low as transfers may become difficult. dme's seem to have a standard seat to floor they think is good and never ask, at least they've never asked me when i got my chairs I'd call Tilite direct and ask them any questions you have about chair setup, screw the dme

09-21-2010, 01:56 PM	#5
heartdog Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 51	LOL screw the DME yeah amen to that. They sure do it to us. I'm so sick of it. Because the chair is being donated to me- thanks to Surf Dog Ricochet, a Golden Retriever that surfs with people with disabilities and raises a whole lot of funds by pawing it forward. http://surfdogricochet.com/Donors.ht...FOR%20TAMANDRA The PT I paid to do the eval was supposed to redo it, along with a rep, but mysteriously didn't confirm the appointment, and the rep cancelled. Some confusion over a vendor being involved. So now the rep is uncomfortable being involved, not having this be a "normal" way it's done, like without a dealer being involved, I'd have difficulty finding someone to maintain and troubleshoot future problems. Everyone is just passing the buck or something. You're all right, demoing would be the way to go. Even if the chair would be too wide, other things could be figured out. The PT had the chair pretty darn tall off the ground in measurements, and I'm very short. Height is nice for some things, but yeah, I do need to be able to get back in the chair. The footrests are already very far up off the ground, because I have Spina Bifida, and short legs. I need risers even, because a chair supposedly can't be made with that short a frame for my legs. (Though I have had them work in the past!) So frustrating knowing TiLite can make this chair in around 10 days or so, and it's taking me now like 6 weeks to get over this part. Wish I could just fly up to TiLite myself and get it figured out!

09-21-2010, 04:46 PM	#6
amyk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,239	heartdog, this is not your first chair, so im not sure you really need a pt eval or vendor to measure you. print off a copy of a tilite form - maybe a zr? then follow the measurement instructions exactly as written. sit in your present chair (its a razorblade, is it?) and redo everything. what i mean is that you should ignore that your seat width is 16 or whatever, and remeasure it according to tilite directions. then if you think you will need it different, add to or subtract from your measurement. you can do that for most of the measurements. like dump, or front angle. can you estimate how much tighter you want? whatever measurements you get are only estimates! you can use them as a jumping-off point for further decisions. you are as likely (or more likely) to get accurate information on the ramifications of different settings and features here than you are from the average pt/vendor. amy

09-21-2010, 05:43 PM	#7
heartdog Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 51	Amy, that's what I thought. The powerchair I got after measurements by a PT fits so badly it's ridiculous. I'm glad I posted : ) I do think a ZRA is best, in case I do need to make some little adjustments ? Though I like the way the ZR looks better. But they're both nice. I asked about no dump, and was immediately told that was really bad, cuz I would fall forward easily. However, dump seems to really put a lot of pressure on my ichsial area. Because my spine curves so that I'm sitting mostly towards the front of my tush. Like having the Ride Designs custom cushion has been horrible, because it makes me go into that hole, and my legs splay out, and my spine curves even more. I sit up straightest with a solid seat under me, but of course, can't have that and not get pressure sores. Makes it hard to figure out what to do. What do you think of seat depth, with a cushion. I'm in a 16" long, and it's hitting the back of my knees, but not horribly. It's almost like a 151/2 would be perfect, but they don't do that. 15" makes my legs not as stable and solid on the footrests. I love the hump between the knees on the Jay3, it keeps me straight and legs apart, which helps pressure. Not sure the gel is best, though. Doesn't seem to make a difference when I've tried air over the gel. I still start to hurt later in the day. Dump also affect my propulsion efforts. I have 25" Spinergys, and if I raise up an inch, it's easier to push the Razorblade. A lot easier. I think the center of gravity is slightly off, too. This chair also has 4" casters, and I tip forward a LOT with even those. My old Invacare Titanium has 5", but the maneuverability suffers. But I don't face plant. Makes for some harder decisions, see? LOL I do have the ZRA printout, with the PT's choices. Some are crossed out already, cuz she was like "this..no, this" really quickly : P

09-21-2010, 06:07 PM	#8
jschism Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: illinois, and no, chicago is not anywhere near where i live Posts: 1,931	ditch the 25's, from what i've read on here they are harder to push, plus unless you are really tall(which you said you were not)they will trash your shoulders. sounds like you still need to find what you are comfortable with, so you definitely want to get an adjustable chair(ZRA)I would request your DME gets cushions for you to try, personally i hate Jay cushions, i have 2 in my closet. The stimulite contour works great for support, if you tend to lean to one side, the varilite proform Nx two chamber might be a good one to try. you can have more air in one side to help straighten out and it requires no pump. i also have an otto bock ComforT which i really like but it is heavy and quite pricey, it helps support weight over your butt and legs

09-21-2010, 06:08 PM	#9
wheeliegirl2010 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 644	I just got my TiLite 2 weeks ago today actually. My DME measured me and he did a superb job. It is ok to have the vendor measure you, PTS are f***ing stupid most of the time anyway. You just need to find a DME you have confidence in and feel comfortable with. I can not stress enough the need to demo and if, when the chair arrives, it is not what you ordered/need DO NOT ACCEPT IT!! Hope this helps! WG

09-21-2010, 06:25 PM	#10
amyk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,239	if you look at something like the zra, you can change he amount of dump as often as you like. i would find zero impossible to manage, but thats me. i would advise that unless youre absolutely sure you want it, dont order it on a non-adjustable chair. in terms of seat depth, maybe you could go for a 15, and order an inch extra frame depth. but, youre normally told that there should be 1-2 inches between the back of your knee and the edge of your cushion. it sounds as though whoever measured you for the 16 got it wrong. that distance varies according to things like the front frame angle and location of the bend, but not that much! it is important to factor in how you transfer - like do you need to fit your fingers behind each knee to get a grip to move it? it may end up that a 14 is deep enough, with an extra inch so that if you bang into a table top, the tubes take the first impact rather than your knees.