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Thread: Can you outperform this chimp? I don't think I can.

  1. #21
    Ala,

    I agree with you. Humans have significantly greater creativity and abilty to understand our world than most other animals If we compare worms to humans, that the difference is enormous However, if we were to compare humans and whales, I am not sure that humans are necessarily that much more creative and have a better understanding of the world. I am sure if other animals are judging for our superiority, they would judge us to be severely lacking in our respect and care of the evnironment, that we may be severely deficient in moral rigor, and that we don't understand our world.

    I find it interesting that what you are describing as creative and knowledge base is really what is being achieved in science. That is interesting because this activity which you say differentiates us from other animals really does not get all the much respect or money (which is really respect) in our society. Thus, for example, a person gets paid much more for catching a ball or looking beautiful than for being creative. I would posit further that discovering the cure for spinal cord injury, while it may create respect in certain communities for a period, would not be long remembered or respected in history. There are many cures of diseases that killed many humans but most people don't remember who developed these cures.

    Wise.



    Quote Originally Posted by ala
    Yes, spirituality is one concept that I believe separates us from the animal kingdom, but I wouldn’t want you to think that my belief in God is my only tune. And I wouldn’t want you to think this completely separates us either, Wise. My mind can sing more than one song.

    I was alluding to our creative abilities. We create things like art, music, literature, and science; but more importantly we apply these things to our natural development. They have become part of our evolutionary process. Yes, I have seen animals, like the painting elephant, draw or paint something we call art, but I have seen no evidence that they understand the concepts behind what they are doing. We, however, not only understand those concepts but we are continually redefining them and improve upon them. This ability goes far beyond just artistic expression.

    We shape our environment and even improve on nature. Yes, and sometimes destroy it; we have that ability too. But we also design our environment , from nano-sized machines to huge structures that test the limits of Earth physics. We take the processes of our natural world and make them our own by redesigning them to serve our whims. We use them to communicate, to overcome sickness and disease, and even to travel our solar system. Someday we may even control our weather. With every passing year, we are increasing the evolutionary distance between us and the animals around us, and that distance is increasing exponentially. Evolution is more than just genetic change to me.

  2. #22
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    I would like to take this discussion a step further (IMHO) and elaborate on my previous thoughts.

    I think there is something else going on here beyond what we have already talked about, Doctor. I think as we use and develop our mental abilities and capacity, we are altering our minds in a way that is carried on genetically. We are consciously, although perhaps not purposefully, creating genetic destiny for ourselves. We may be altering our own minds this way as we speak, albeit minutely. I know this sounds highly speculative, even fanciful, so let me try something more scientific.

    The process of natural selection is something we as humans have uniquely skewed. Selecting traits such as intelligence and creativity used to be about survival but not anymore. We select these traits based increasingly for more abstract reasons. How many of us don’t find conceptual creativity, romantic idealism, and ethereal intelligence desirable in a mate. I think these traits are becoming increasingly desirable over physical strength, agility, and survival prowess.

    Things like genetics and evolution used to be exclusively within the purview of nature. As you know, we are beginning to understand genetics, and we are learning how to apply that knowledge. Very soon, we will become the engineers of evolution, not just for ourselves but for all life around us. Let’s see animals match that.

    --Alan, Al, or ala

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    Ala,

    I agree with you. Humans have significantly greater creativity and abilty to understand our world than most other animals If we compare worms to humans, that the difference is enormous However, if we were to compare humans and whales, I am not sure that humans are necessarily that much more creative and have a better understanding of the world. I am sure if other animals are judging for our superiority, they would judge us to be severely lacking in our respect and care of the evnironment, that we may be severely deficient in moral rigor, and that we don't understand our world.

    I find it interesting that what you are describing as creative and knowledge base is really what is being achieved in science. That is interesting because this activity which you say differentiates us from other animals really does not get all the much respect or money (which is really respect) in our society. Thus, for example, a person gets paid much more for catching a ball or looking beautiful than for being creative. I would posit further that discovering the cure for spinal cord injury, while it may create respect in certain communities for a period, would not be long remembered or respected in history. There are many cures of diseases that killed many humans but most people don't remember who developed these cures.

    Wise.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ala
    I don’t think “respecting our environments” applies to animal life as it does for humans. The word respect implies a value judgment, and I don’t believe animals do this in regards to their environment.

    I really do care about you and your opinions lecturing Lindox; even though, I don’t always agree with them.
    I am sorry you feel I am lecturing ala. AS you said yourself it's your beliefs you are sharing with me and vice-a-versa. I don't need your assurances contained within this post.
    Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindox
    I am sorry you feel I am lecturing ala. AS you said yourself it's your beliefs you are sharing with me and vice-a-versa. I don't need your assurances contained within this post.
    Sorry, but the word lecturing was meant facetiously. I didn't think you would actually believe I was reprimanding you. I sometimes forget what it must read like without emoticons. I like to be playful with words sometimes, like putting words that start with the same letter together, creative writing.

    As far as using "assurances?" I'll take that under advisement.

  5. #25
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    guys please forgive me if i am off topic ,but i have a question regarding humans vs animals.
    why humans sex behaviour is diffrent than animals sex behaviour?
    humans need sex daily ...animals only for reproduction .
    • Dum spiro, spero.
      • Translation: "As long as I breathe, I hope."

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by adi chicago
    guys please forgive me if i am off topic ,but i have a question regarding humans vs animals.
    why humans sex behaviour is diffrent than animals sex behaviour?
    humans need sex daily ...animals only for reproduction .
    I don't know about that. Monkeys and apes can be pretty nasty with their sexual desires and I have seen some very humpy dogs go after anything like blankets, stuffed animals, other species of animals (including body parts not made for reproduction) or your leg.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ala
    I don't know about that. Monkeys and apes can be pretty nasty with their sexual desires and I have seen some very humpy dogs go after anything like blankets, stuffed animals, other species of animals (including body parts not made for reproduction) or your leg.
    ala i give you an example ...dog females do not accept sex everytime...only when they are in heat .sexual hormones issue...humans have sex for pleasure...right or wrong?
    • Dum spiro, spero.
      • Translation: "As long as I breathe, I hope."

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by adi chicago
    ala i give you an example ...dog females do not accept sex everytime...only when they are in heat .sexual hormones issue...humans have sex for pleasure...right or wrong?
    I'm not sure this is the right thread for this discussion but...

    "females do not accept sex everytime" That goes for a lot of human females.

    Yes, humans have sex for pleasure only. So do some animals.

    What I think your talking about is sex for comfort, affection (which some animals do) or to satisfy our egos.

    I think you, of all people, should know about the human libido.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libido

  9. #29
    One thing I know is I can't out perform the chimp in this video doing the exact same activity.

    Also can't smell a living rodent a block away. Can't see one when flying in an airplane either. Can't hear
    a tiptoe sound when it's a block away either. Can't smell cancer or know a chemical change is going on in someone that is going to have a seizure. Can't fly without a manmade object. Can't stand on the water and wiggle backwards. Alot of can nots.

    So if one believes a Creator created these marvels how can anyone even KNOW exactly how much they are capable of? I know my dogs have respect for me. And a two-way love is there also. I respect them for being a dog. There really is no written reason for them to risk their lives to keep me from being attacked by anything..but they do. Even a starving dog will protect their human. And they have values. They are loyal..true blue. Even to humans that don't love them.

    They could live in the wild. At least the hunters could. And they have a memory of how to get places that they don't even need their eyes to do it.

    The animal world is different than the human species..but look at everything they have been given thru creation or evolution. So somebody or something must consider them very special.
    Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

  10. #30
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    i agree animals are smarter than humans .....they did not smell [scent]the money yet.regarding chimps ....could be possible .. i dont say no, until i will have a contest [memory issue].
    • Dum spiro, spero.
      • Translation: "As long as I breathe, I hope."

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