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Thread: The 'disabled community's' view of stem cell research?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by trainman
    Actually, I have friends that received help with having kids. However, they selected the facility that did not produce little extra and the couple was very explicit in how the eggs were to be used. Such as not for treatments or studies.
    Were they adopted out or thrown away? I'm always intrigued by people that think they're speaking of little children, but throw them in the trash. Seems like adoption is the only legitimate use for excess blastocysts, in that case.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by betheny
    Were they adopted out or thrown away? I'm always intrigued by people that think they're speaking of little children, but throw them in the trash. Seems like adoption is the only legitimate use for excess blastocysts, in that case.
    10,000 or more embryos are discarded every week by IVF clinics.

    Is it mass murder or a waste of potential cures?

    Most people don't know where embryonic stem cells come from and
    instantly assume that they are derived from aborted fetuses.

    Adult stem cells have not cured anything and no one with a spinal
    cord injury, that has been treated with asc's, has seen any measurable
    return. So that is false.
    Last edited by Buck503; 12-15-2007 at 02:10 AM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Leo's Avatar
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    Hi again Trainman,

    From the posts you've made on CC you have left the impression that results from ESC are many years away.

    How can you have this opinion when Han's Kierstead and Geron are both going to be starting human trials in 08?

    About left over embryo's from IVF. The fact is that every day over 300 are destroyed they had no opportunity to become adobted or become snow flake babies. In your papers and talks with people do you point these facts out?

    Maybe not pleasant facts but none the less people should know them when making their decision.

    What is your understanding of how much money is being spent on ESC and ASC research?

    Look forward to hearing from you.
    http://justadollarplease.org/

    2010 SCINet Clinical Trial Support Squad Member

    "You kids and your cures, why back when I was injured they gave us a wheelchair and that's the way it was and we liked it!" Grumpy Old Man

    .."i used to be able to goof around so much because i knew Superman had my back. now all i've got is his example -- and that's gonna have to be enough."

  4. #24
    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    trainman - I'm trying to understand your logic. You state that "If ESC are actully shown to be useful in how many decades, friends and myself have already said that we will not use them." There are studies underway now where scientists are developing embryonic stem cells from someone's own skin. Are you saying that if this is successful you wouldn't take that treatment even if it would cure you? If your answer is the same could you explain why you wouldn't?

    Thanks, Mike
    T12 Incomplete - Walking with Crutches, Injured in Oct 2003

  5. #25

    Save which babies????

    Hans Keirstead intends to begin human clinical trials in '08 using undifferentiated stem cells. His clinical trial will involve infants diagnosed with SMA-1, spinal muscular atrophy. Without a cure, 80% of these babies die by age 1. Most are diagnosed with this condition by 3 months.

    I wonder if this research might change the moral compass of those who oppose ESCR and point it in a new direction. Will they have a change of heart knowing that babies, although not in a test tube, might live if this research is successful? At what age does our body of cells, become less important than the blastocyst?

    It should be interesting.
    Last edited by IMHopeful; 12-17-2007 at 01:45 PM.
    "Our lives begin to end the day
    we become silent about things that matter."
    - Martin Luther King Jr

  6. #26
    I have the feeling that once they're born, they're on their own.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by IMHopeful
    Hans Keirstead intends to begin human clinical trials in '08 using undifferentiated stem cells. His clinical trial will involve infants diagnosed with SMA-1, spinal muscular atrophy. Without a cure, 80% of these babies die by age 1. Most are diagnosed with this condition by 3 months.

    I wonder if this research might change the moral compass of those who oppose ESCR and point it in a new direction. Will they have a change of heart knowing that babies, although not in a test tube, might live if this research is successful? At what age does our body of cells, become less important than the blastocyst?

    It should be interesting.
    The actual process that this horrific disease takes these infants is heartwrenching. The blastocytes/embryos whatever have no feelings. These BORN/living breathing humans DO. And their road is never going in any direction except they get WORSE and WORSE until finally death takes them out of their living hell.
    Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

  8. #28
    Hi Caitlin,

    Wow what a subject you have picked! It always sparks good debate. I think that both types of research are good and necessary, but at this point in time, if you really think about it and follow the research, embryonic stem cells seem to be what most scientists believe have the most promise when it comes to curing spinal cord injuries. If the door wasn't shut on embryonic stem cell research in 2001, by a very uninformed George W. Bush, and they were given the same amount of attention as adult stem cells, most scientists believe that we wouldn't be talking decades, but probably a few years before real therapies could be used to treat a vast array of diseases and afflictions. As a spinal cord injured person, I would except any treatment or therapy that is going to get me out of my wheelchair. I would want the science to be sound and ethical of course. I think we have to use the discarded embryos from in vitro clinics. It would actually be unethical for us not to. Some might argue that it is murder to kill an embryo for scientific purposes. They are entitled to their opinion, which obviously comes from religious beliefs. Having said that, how do we know that God did not put those embryos in that situation in an attempt to advance science and end human suffering? In this context, it would be unethical to throw the extra embryos in the trash can and have the potential go to waste.
    Here's Hoping!

  9. #29
    Hi Caitlin,

    I support all and every type. Cells are being trashed that could go towards research that could save lives.


    Quote Originally Posted by trainman
    If ESC are actually shown to be useful, in how many decades, friends and myself have already said that we will not use them. These are friends that are as severely injured as I am. I very well hope to be able to breath on my own some day and have use of my arms and hands, but that possibility looks to be from adult, not embryonic stem cells.
    The reason treatments like Lima's are not available worldwide is because they don't work. Where is the evidence that adult stem cells show so much promise? I can't comment on your religious view as that is your own belief but, if you think about the hurt and loss you and everyone who cares about you has suffered because of your injury, can you honestly afford to turn down a treatment derived from Embryonic stem cells when it appears?
    Where oh where has my pixie gone now?????

    An effective therapy for spinal cord injury is close, and don't let anybody beat you down for totally embracing that

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by trainman
    I am a C2/3 quadriplegic nearly 23 years post injury. Meaning I have no feeling or movement below the neck and am unable to breath on my own.

    I in no way support embryonic stem cell research. I DO support adult stem cell research. If you look to countries such as Portugal, ASC are already being used in human treatments which many Americans with SCI have gone for. It is not a complete cure at this point, but is much closer than the US.

    If the United States had been investing research in ASC and not bothered with the ESC debate, we would very likely be doing these treatments already. Adult stem cells have been used for decades already and have shown that they work.

    If ESC are actually shown to be useful, in how many decades, friends and myself have already said that we will not use them. These are friends that are as severely injured as I am. I very well hope to be able to breath on my own some day and have use of my arms and hands, but that possibility looks to be from adult, not embryonic stem cells.
    Trainman: Portugal you refer to what is that? I’m from Europe and Portugal is a U-land deluxe, tapas but just poor en’large. Portugal once stayed tall, they had colonies and stuff, but you now as an American you should not put you’re belief on Portugal like “we will save you”, it is a joke of course. The US will and does regardless of the clowns of a religious idiot religious nut prez you have. US deliver, a research bastion nevertheless the prez you have, Portugal on the other hand, the country that explored a time ago, is today a witty U-country and also therefore a reason they entered EU to get money transfer from witch they do in shitloads. And if you talk about the clinic of Dr. Lima it is the same, not a clean “clinic”, and if you try to say that olfactory mucosa is adult stem cells to just bash esc you’re likewise wrong – it is not asc Lima is working on, so why do you say so (another nut anti cure person also claimed this a few weeks ago). You claim to study all this, but I say you don’t, but then try to prove me otherwise? Feel free as for Portugal Lima. And if some or you will use this Laurence Johnsron for any claims one are like this it is likewise wrong, regardless if he beliefs in esc, he’s just a moron messing with a sci cure like Bush and you are. What did the Italians say, take a long swim? (Expect such answers trainman if you mess with the cure). And if you don’t like it, you’re next to prove the SCI cure in Portugal or claim you’re post above?

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