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Thread: The Earth is older than 6000 years

  1. #121
    I have plumbing in my house older than 6000 years.
    Caked up dino doo-doo is a constant menace.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by garvey
    I have plumbing in my house older than 6000 years.
    Caked up dino doo-doo is a constant menace.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by hardluckhitshome
    Excellent, we have reached the point of agreement about religion not being the cause of evil, but humanity.
    Your use of the definite article is where we've found agreement. Had it been an indefinite article, I would not concede.

  4. #124
    Senior Member LaoziSailor's Avatar
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    May 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by hardluckhitshome
    Excellent, we [hardluckhitshome and Le Type Fran├žais] have reached the point of agreement about religion not being the cause of evil, but humanity.
    ...and humanity is the cause of evil because?

    Han Tacoma

    ~ Artificial Intelligence is better than none! ~

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by LaoziSailor
    ...and humanity is the cause of evil because?

    Because we know the difference between right and wrong - and we so often pick wrong.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by hardluckhitshome
    Thank you for your reply. I know some Jews believe that a day in the Torah did not necessarily mean a 24 hour period. I find it better for Jews to believe that G-d created everything 5768 years ago including items that He may have made to look older than they are. It doesn't matter really which you believe I suppose.

    What I meant to say is that we don't see a problem in studying genes or finding oil or using the scientific method and still believing in creation. We don't see it as - oh genes have been around for 200,000 years in humans and we believe in creation, so therefore we can't study genes.

    If other religions like Christianity and Islam are against science and teaching evolution in public schools, that's wrong because it infringes on your rights. They are religions that like to impose their beliefs on others, in the same way that some secularists would like to impose on the religious that creation shouldn't be allowed for home-schooled children.

    I say, if a religious belief doesn't infringe on your rights, then there is nothing wrong it. Someone gave the example of religion being bad and used the example of Muslims killing infidels for their non-belief. That's not acceptable obviously because the Muslim belief is imposing on the right of the non-believer to..well, survive. But when it comes to belief in creation, it is very hard to say that a Jewish mother teaching her kids about creation imposes on your rights.

    It is so interesting and admirable that you believe that others have rights. Having grown up in a country where religious freedom is prized and observed probably more than any other country in the world (Japan), I am grateful for your attitude. It probably comes as a surprise to you that I think that Japan is the most religiously free country in the world but, having lived and visited in many countries, I believe that it is true. When I was in high school in Japan, I sang Hava Nageela in the high school choir, celebrated Christmas, spoke English, Japanese, and Chinese at school, between, and home respectively. My best friends came from families that were Southern Baptist or Mormon missionaries, Jewish Zionists, Buddhists, Shintoists, agnostics, and even "religiously promiscuous". The last is something that is common in China and Japan. Rather than put all their eggs in one basket, there are families that worship several religions. Japan had a long history of secret religions due to intolerance. The generation of Japanese that grew up after World War II is dedicated to tolerance. So, in my opinion, there is respect for religion of others in Japan.

    Despite the stated ideal of religious freedom in the Constitution, religious intolerance has long had a prominent place in the history of the United States. For example, this is the country where the Salem witch trials occurred. Puritanism is a prominent part of the New England culture. Many fundamentalists believe that their morality should be imposed on others, including their views of sexuality, marriage, and God should be imposed on others. In many places in the United States, you have the feeling that if you are not Christian, many people would not consider you an American. This feeling was particularly strong after 9/11/2001.

    This situation is so strange considering that many of the founders of this nation came to the United States to escape the religious persecution (specifically by other Christians). For centuries, the United States has been a beacon for those who sought to practice their religion without interferences. Many of the founding fathers of this country were deists, who:
    believed in a creator who set the world free to run with human beings at the helm, whose task was to be guided by reason and to find ways to do it well. Theirs was a rationalist and self-reliant religion. Because of strides in the secular sciences in their time, it became clear to the Founders that the world was far more complex than religion had previously taught.
    New Jersey is one of the most culturally and religiously diverse states in the nation. Second only to New York in the percentage of Jews, New Jersey also has large numbers of Catholics (43%), Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, and Buddhists. Some people call New Jersey the heart of evangelism (Source). At the same time, New Jersey is one of the most religiously tolerant states and has long gone out of its way to support religions. Many people do not know that New Jersey was the first state to legalize public busing for children to parochial schools. In the Everson case that occurred in New Jersey, the Supreme Court federalized the Establishment Clause of the Constitution by providing the criteria of what religious activities government can fund and not fund.

    From this perspective, I think that I may be getting a glimmer of understanding why New Jersey voters decided against stem cell research bond. In the beginning, I thought that this vote was so unrepresentative of the people of this state and that the vote is purely a result of external force manipulating the vote, as well as our own ineptitude. Many polls have shown that a large majority of the state believe that embryonic stem cell research is moral. However, I think that many people may have been swayed by voices of those who say that this research is an affront to their core religious beliefs. In my opinion, many voters may have voted against the research not because they believe it is immoral but because they don't think that it is appropriate to force people who believe that the research is immoral to pay for it. It is a vote of respect for people that they don't agree with.

    There is another vote coming up in New Jersey that may illustrate the respect that people of New Jersey have for the religious opinions of others. On December 12, New Jersey may become the first state in the union to outlaw the death penalty, something that is offensive to many Catholics and other religions groups (Source). The issue is being considered in the New Jersey legislature after Assembly Speaker Joseph Roberts met with Sister Helen Prejan, the Roman Catholic nun who wrote "Dead Man Walking". Prejean served as a spiritual adviser to death row inmates. The vote is scheduled on December 13, to reduce the state's most severe punishment from execution to life in prison without parole. A senate committee had approved abolishign the death penalty in May. A report in January had found that the death penalty was a more expensive sentence than life in prison and did not deter murder. However, families of murder victims oppose the bill and believe that the state should streamline the death penalty. The state has 8 men on death row in New Jersey.


    P.S. I apologize for editing this so much but, as the thoughts are forming in my head, I find better ways of expressing them.
    Last edited by Wise Young; 11-15-2007 at 01:05 PM.

  7. #127
    Anyone else with me wish we could light firecrackers and scream outside their door?

  8. #128


    Wise Young,
    Thank you for your reply. I would love to visit China someday because I've always been interested in its history and culture. I'm not too surprised that Japan enjoys religious freedom, but I was a little surprised that China does.

    I completely agree with you on New Jersey. Not too many people say it, but I love New Jersey and sometimes think I'd rather live there than Brooklyn or Queens.


    Quote Originally Posted by french guy
    Anyone else with me wish we could light firecrackers and scream outside their door?
    No. Why torment them? What did they ever do to you?

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by hardluckhitshome
    No. Why torment them? What did they ever do to you?
    While I was kidding, those people do need serious deprogramming to allow them to adapt back into society.

  10. #130
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Perth Western Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by hardluckhitshome
    Because we know the difference between right and wrong - and we so often pick wrong.
    the difference between right and wrong is so often defined by cultural and religious standards and imperatives and not by humanity's inate knowledge of what constitutes the difference between the two. Thus we have suicide bombers whom are convinced they are acting in the cause of what is right and on the other hand extreme militaristic actions that cause untold suffering to innocent civilians again propogated by those who are convinced by religion that they are also right. Obviously religion is the instigator and the cause.

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