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Thread: The Earth is older than 6000 years

  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by IanTPoulter
    are you saying Bush is lying when he talks about his strong religious beliefs?
    Bush has lied about other stuff so why not his religious beliefs. I do think he is a Christian (at least in word not in deed). He would have a reason to play up his religious beliefs too since evangelicals have huge political clout as a single group in the US. Which do you think would appeal to evangelicals more: "G-d told me to go to war" ...or..."Let's take over their country for their oil and to exact revenge on my father's humiliating legacy in Iraq".

    I dont think so, in fact these strong beliefs are what make him so dangerous imo.
    Opinion duly noted.

    The evangelists supported the Iraqi war from the beginning, dont forget 2 things. The first is that their belief is that the US needs a strong military presence in the middle east to protect Israel and the second is that they have an extremely strong influence in the Bush administration, Bush would not have made it to power without them. securing oil supplies in the middle east is part of the strategy to secure a power base in the middle east and not the strategy.
    This ties into my first point that numero uno on Bush's mind is oil, not Israel. This is not something he can come out and say, so he has to find reasons that appeal to his supporters.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardluckhitshome
    Bush has lied about other stuff so why not his religious beliefs. I do think he is a Christian (at least in word not in deed). He would have a reason to play up his religious beliefs too since evangelicals have huge political clout as a single group in the US. Which do you think would appeal to evangelicals more: "G-d told me to go to war" ...or..."Let's take over their country for their oil and to exact revenge on my father's humiliating legacy in Iraq".



    Opinion duly noted.



    This ties into my first point that numero uno on Bush's mind is oil, not Israel. This is not something he can come out and say, so he has to find reasons that appeal to his supporters.
    Heres an article on the religous views of Bush and how they relate to his policies. Bush has and is too consistent in his references to God and religion in regards to his actions to be just using it for political gain imo.
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinio...cusbush22.html
    Bush is the most publicly religious president since at least Woodrow Wilson. Ronald Reagan had great appeal to religious conservatives, but he was far less outspoken about religion -- a point noted in a June eulogy of the late president by Ron Reagan, who said his father did not "(wear) his faith on his sleeve to gain political advantage," a comment many interpreted as a critique of the current president. Indeed, Bush speaks often about his "born-again" faith and regularly references a divine power in public statements, a practice that religion scholar Martin E. Marty has termed "God talk."
    That the president -- any president -- is a person of religious faith is generally viewed by the U.S. public in favorable terms, the better to be grounded when facing momentous decisions. I share this view because I know how central the Christian faith is to my life and to many others I know and respect. Invocations of a higher power, when emphasizing inclusive and transcendent principles, seem to me to be legitimate and adroit rhetoric for a leader of 290 million people, the overwhelming majority of whom believe in God in some form. What is deeply troubling about Bush's religiosity, however, is that he consistently evinces a certainty that he knows God's will -- and he then acts upon this certainty in ways that affect billions of humans.
    For example, in his address before Congress and a national television audience nine days after the terrorist attacks, Bush declared: "The course of this conflict is not known, yet its outcome is certain. Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them." Similarly, in the 2003 State of the Union address, with the conflict in Iraq imminent, he declared: "Americans are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." These are not requests for divine favor; they are declarations of divine wishes.
    From this position, only short theological and rhetorical steps are required to justify U.S. actions. For instance, at a December 2003 news conference, Bush said: "I believe, firmly believe -- and you've heard me say this a lot, and I say it a lot because I truly believe it -- that freedom is the Almighty God's gift to every person, every man and woman who lives in this world. That's what I believe. And the arrest of Saddam Hussein changed the equation in Iraq. Justice was being delivered to a man who defied that gift from the Almighty to the people of Iraq."
    Further, this view of divinely ordained policy infuses the public discourse of several administration leaders, irrespective of their particular religious outlook. I systematically examined hundreds of administration public communications -- by the president, John Ashcroft, Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld -- about the "war on terrorism" in the 20 months between Sept. 11, 2001, and the end of "major combat" in Iraq in spring 2003. This research showed that the administration's public communications contained four characteristics simultaneously rooted in religious fundamentalism while offering political capital:

    Simplistic, black-and-white conceptions of the political landscape, most notably good vs. evil and security vs. peril.

    Calls for immediate action on administration policies as a necessary part of the nation's "calling" and "mission" against terrorism.

    Declarations about the will of God for America and for the spread of U.S. conceptions of freedom and liberty.

    Claims that dissent from the administration is unpatriotic and a threat to the nation and globe.
    In combination, these characteristics have transformed Bush's "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists" policy to "Either you are with us, or you are against God." To the great misfortune of American democracy and the global public, such a view looks, sounds and feels remarkably similar to that of the terrorists it is fighting.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by hardluckhitshome
    Islam is definitely a religion that likes war.
    I thought it was humanity? When I made the same observation about religion in general, you considered it unreasonable.


  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Type Fran├žais
    I thought it was humanity? When I made the same observation about religion in general, you considered it unreasonable.
    The only thing that I have been saying on this thread is that human nature is the cause of evil in the world - and that is a group to which both the religious and the non-religious belong. Sometimes you've agreed with that position, sometimes you have not.

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