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Thread: For all you kick-a@& car enthusiast's!!

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Racing
    What evidence do you have that diesel engines are "cleaner than most gas vehicles"? Even just taking your above statement at face value, what makes you think that black soot falling to the ground is NOT a form of pollution? If you throw a gum wrapper out your car window, it's likely to fall to the ground. Do you not see that as a pollutant? Why do you think that trash on the ground is OK or at least not as bad as trash in the air?

    More to the point, you are in gross error if you think that the crap that pours out of diesel engines is harmless. Soot is a form of fine particle pollution that exacerbates asthma, bronchitis, lung cancer and can cause premature death. It is also a major contributor to global warming.

    Again, I ask, do you honestly believe that overt pollution is OK as long as it doesn't impact you directly in an immediate sense? Nick specifically stated that he didn't like diesel emissions blowing in his face. So he must recognize to some degree that it is a negative thing. You two shouldn't go dodging that fact now.

    C.
    I don't know, you race cars for recreation, is that any different?

    Diesels do put out more particulate emissions per gallon than a gasoline engine,
    but diesels on average deliver 30% better fuel economy.

    So you both can pollute happily together.
    Last edited by Buck503; 11-08-2007 at 03:47 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Buck_Nastier
    you race cars for recreation, is that any different?
    I'm not sure. Do you have a direct comparison? When have you ever heard me claim that what I do has no negative effect on the environment? I am well aware of the fact that my hobby has an environmental impact and I do what I can do offset that. I certainly don't revel in the pollution that I cause.

    Diesels do put out more particulate emissions per gallon than a gasoline engine, but diesels on average deliver 30% better fuel economy.
    Fuel economy refers to how much fossil fuel is used up. It has nothing to do with pollution. You are changing the subject.

    C.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Racing
    I'm not sure. Do you have a direct comparison? When have you ever heard me claim that what I do has no negative effect on the environment? I am well aware of the fact that my hobby has an environmental impact and I do what I can do offset that. I certainly don't revel in the pollution that I cause.


    Fuel economy refers to how much fossil fuel is used up. It has nothing to do with pollution. You are changing the subject.

    C.
    So because you don't claim that racing cars is good for the environment you think it's ok for you to call someone out on the pollution their cars emit? Pretty hypocritical. What do you do to offset it? Buy carbon credits? Diesel is cleaner, especially new diesels, and if you run bio-diesel it is even more so. This must be why all major auto manufacturers are increasing production of diesel cars, including cars in the U.S. Even in road racing, like F1 and LeMan the fastest, most winning current car is the Audi TDI. If the U.S. wanted to be energy independant IMO the fastest way would be to increase bio-diesel across the board instead of wasting food resources on Ethanol.

    http://oneighturbo.com/2007/09/27/au...t-le-mans-win/

  4. #44
    Senior Member RSieck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpbullock
    So because you don't claim that racing cars is good for the environment you think it's ok for you to call someone out on the pollution their cars emit? Pretty hypocritical. What do you do to offset it? Buy carbon credits? Diesel is cleaner, especially new diesels, and if you run bio-diesel it is even more so. This must be why all major auto manufacturers are increasing production of diesel cars, including cars in the U.S. Even in road racing, like F1 and LeMan the fastest, most winning current car is the Audi TDI. If the U.S. wanted to be energy independant IMO the fastest way would be to increase bio-diesel across the board instead of wasting food resources on Ethanol.

    http://oneighturbo.com/2007/09/27/au...t-le-mans-win/
    Pretty much. I'm about a month away from buying my own setup to start making my own bio-diesel...Cant wait to smell french fries out of my exhaust pipe!!
    T8/9 (2-24-06)
    IOWA

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Racing
    When have you ever heard me claim that what I do has no negative effect on the environment?
    I didn't say you have.

    You're persecuting someone for "overt pollution". I was pointing out
    that you could be accused of the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Racing
    Fuel economy refers to how much fossil fuel is used up. It has nothing to do with pollution. You are changing the subject.

    C.
    If a vehicle uses less fuel, then doesn't that equate to less emissions?

    I'll give you an example.

    A 2004 Volkswagen Jetta diesel emits 7,316 lbs of CO2 per year if
    you drive it 12,000 miles a year.

    A 2004 Volkswagen Jetta gasoline emits 9,215 lbs of CO2 per year
    if you drive it 12,000 miles a year.

    That's a difference of 1,899 lbs of CO2 because of better fuel
    economy.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by gpbullock
    So because you don't claim that racing cars is good for the environment you think it's ok for you to call someone out on the pollution their cars emit? Pretty hypocritical.
    Nope. Read it again. What I called two guys out for was reveling in the pollution produced by their favorite vehicles.

    C.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Timaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Racing
    What evidence do you have that diesel engines are "cleaner than most gas vehicles"? Even just taking your above statement at face value, what makes you think that black soot falling to the ground is NOT a form of pollution?
    My 2.2 HDi is fitted with one of these - even after 30,000 miles you can still run your finger around the exhaust and it will come out clean, the only draw back is the maintenance cost.

    Particle filter (PF)
    Particles have a diameter of around 0.09 microns and consist mainly of carbon and hydrocarbons. The PF traps these particles and periodically burns them off.
    Particles burn naturally at approximately 550 °C, but the normal temperature of exhaust gases leaving the manifold is only 150 °C.
    The particle filter system overcomes this problem in a number of ways :
    • post-injection during the expansion phase, resulting in post-combustion in the cylinder and a 200 to 250 °C increase in exhaust gas temperature (i.e. to between 350 and 400 °C) ;
    • additional post-combustion by means of an oxidising catalyst located upstream of the filter. The catalyst acts on any unburned hydrocarbons resulting from the post-injection and raises the temperature by a further 100 °C (to between 450 and 500 °C) ;
    • use of Eolys, a cerine-based additive that reduces the particle combustion temperature to 450 °C.
    The particle filter system consists of the following :
    • a housing containing the pre-catalyst and filter. The filter is a porous block of silicon carbide that traps all particles in the exhaust gases. Sensors monitor clogging pressure across the filter and the gas temperatures at the inlet and outlet of
    • the system ;
    • a software programme in the engine control unit that controls regeneration of the filter by post-injection every 400 to 500 km depending on the clogging pressure across the filter. The software also provides diagnostic information on the system. During regeneration, the inlet air is no longer cooled by passing through the air-air intercooler but is instead heated to raise the temperature of the mixture in the combustion chamber with a consequent increase in the temperature of the exhaust gases ;
    • a fuel additive system consisting of a probe tube, a system to inject Eolys into the main fuel tank and a dedicated electronic controller. The Eolys is stored in a tank adjacent to the main fuel tank and injected in proportion to the volume of fuel added during refuelling. For example, when filling up with 60 litres of fuel, the system will inject 37.5 ml of solution containing 1.9 g of cerine. The Eolys tank has a capacity of 5 litres, sufficient for 80,000 km.
    The filter is cleaned and the Eolys tank refilled during dealer servicing every 80,000 km.
    © 2000 Julian Marsh/Citroënët/SA Automobiles Citroën

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Buck_Nastier
    If a vehicle uses less fuel, then doesn't that equate to less emissions?
    Nope. Not necessarily. Fuel consumption refers to what goes in your tank. Exhaust emissions are what come out your tailpipe. Any number of factors can impact the quantities of each, but not necessarily both at the same time. For instance, removing the catalytic converter from a car will increase the amount of pollution it releases, but won't increase the amount of fuel it consumes. In same cases, it may even reduce fuel consumption.

    C.

  9. #49
    Senior Member RSieck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timaru
    My 2.2 HDi is fitted with one of these - even after 30,000 miles you can still run your finger around the exhaust and it will come out clean, the only draw back is the maintenance cost.

    Particle filter (PF)
    Particles have a diameter of around 0.09 microns and consist mainly of carbon and hydrocarbons. The PF traps these particles and periodically burns them off.
    Particles burn naturally at approximately 550 °C, but the normal temperature of exhaust gases leaving the manifold is only 150 °C.
    The particle filter system overcomes this problem in a number of ways :
    • post-injection during the expansion phase, resulting in post-combustion in the cylinder and a 200 to 250 °C increase in exhaust gas temperature (i.e. to between 350 and 400 °C) ;
    • additional post-combustion by means of an oxidising catalyst located upstream of the filter. The catalyst acts on any unburned hydrocarbons resulting from the post-injection and raises the temperature by a further 100 °C (to between 450 and 500 °C) ;
    • use of Eolys, a cerine-based additive that reduces the particle combustion temperature to 450 °C.
    The particle filter system consists of the following :
    • a housing containing the pre-catalyst and filter. The filter is a porous block of silicon carbide that traps all particles in the exhaust gases. Sensors monitor clogging pressure across the filter and the gas temperatures at the inlet and outlet of
    • the system ;
    • a software programme in the engine control unit that controls regeneration of the filter by post-injection every 400 to 500 km depending on the clogging pressure across the filter. The software also provides diagnostic information on the system. During regeneration, the inlet air is no longer cooled by passing through the air-air intercooler but is instead heated to raise the temperature of the mixture in the combustion chamber with a consequent increase in the temperature of the exhaust gases ;
    • a fuel additive system consisting of a probe tube, a system to inject Eolys into the main fuel tank and a dedicated electronic controller. The Eolys is stored in a tank adjacent to the main fuel tank and injected in proportion to the volume of fuel added during refuelling. For example, when filling up with 60 litres of fuel, the system will inject 37.5 ml of solution containing 1.9 g of cerine. The Eolys tank has a capacity of 5 litres, sufficient for 80,000 km.
    The filter is cleaned and the Eolys tank refilled during dealer servicing every 80,000 km.
    © 2000 Julian Marsh/Citroënët/SA Automobiles Citroën
    Yup, all 2007 and newer diesel in the US have to have a Diesel Particulate Filter to meet 2007 emissions. In 2010 there is another deadline to produce even cleaner diesels. Right now with the newest diesel trucks, like Timaru said, you can eat off the tail pipe, no carbon/soot residue.
    T8/9 (2-24-06)
    IOWA

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by RSieck
    Right now with the newest diesel trucks, like Timaru said, you can eat off the tail pipe, no carbon/soot residue.
    Really? So then what about this...
    the new Ford is a 08'...lol I'm gonna have compound turbos on my truck prolly next year. I'll have to get a pic up of it belching smoke out of the stack. Its gonna be sweet!!
    That is the sort of attitude towards pollution that I was questioning.

    C.

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