View Poll Results: Do you use clean or sterile intermittent catheterization? I use

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  • Clean intermittent catheterization (new catheter)

    28 35.90%
  • Clean intermiettent catheterization (re-use silicone coat)

    16 20.51%
  • Clean intermittent catheterization (re-use hydrophilic coat)

    0 0%
  • Clean intermittent cathetherization (other type)

    2 2.56%
  • Sterile intermittent catheterization (hydrophilic coat)

    11 14.10%
  • Sterile intermittent catheterization (silicone coat)

    2 2.56%
  • Sterile intermittent cathetherization (other)

    6 7.69%
  • Indwelling urethral catheter (foley)

    5 6.41%
  • Indwelling suprapubic catheter (foley)

    4 5.13%
  • Mitrafanoff or other catheterization method

    2 2.56%
  • I don't use urinary catheters.

    2 2.56%
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Thread: Intermittent Catheterization: Clean versus Sterile?

  1. #31
    Senior Member keps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chak
    Dr. Young,

    Can you comment about nelaton catheter? Can it be use safely for intermittent cath? What are its negative effects? Thanks

    Chak
    Chak, I have used Nelaton catheters since injury, and I have had no problems with these catheters.
    As Wise thought, they are not coated, and appear to be fairly inexpensive.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Scorpion's Avatar
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    Steve, are you a salesman/rep for a catheter manufacturer? You've only posted about catheters, and you're pushing for the use of sterile cath kits in every post, your first post saying "Are you reusing catheters? You should not have to get two infections before Medicare gives you a sterile catheter each time. If you want to help with the fight to end the reuse of catheters please contact me."

  3. #33
    This was mentioned before but I would like to be sure it is the same product. I cath mostly with the following cath. Is staggered eyelet the same as "polished eyelet". Is this ok for long term IC? Or should I fork out the bucks and go for something like the Mentor 450??

    http://www.allegromedical.com/urolog...e-p192601.html
    T6 complete (or so I think), SCI since September 21, 2003

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion
    Steve, are you a salesman/rep for a catheter manufacturer? You've only posted about catheters, and you're pushing for the use of sterile cath kits in every post, your first post saying "Are you reusing catheters? You should not have to get two infections before Medicare gives you a sterile catheter each time. If you want to help with the fight to end the reuse of catheters please contact me."
    Scorpion, we have already gone through that. Steve is not a salesman. Let's not question his motivation.

    Wise.

  5. #35
    Banned adi chicago's Avatar
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    guys please dont argue ....i tried both techniques ...sterile and clean caths....the same result ...frequent utis.damn bugs.the bladder is an internal organ.when i hole my nose is a diffrent issue.
    • Dum spiro, spero.
      • Translation: "As long as I breathe, I hope."

  6. #36
    Senior Member Scorpion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    Scorpion, we have already gone through that. Steve is not a salesman. Let's not question his motivation.
    Ah, okay, I missed that.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Winter
    If sterile is better in the hospital are you admitting that sterile is better than reusing? If so why would you not use the safer technique outside as well? There are just as bad of bugs outside the hospital as inside. Just call the CDC.

    SW
    You must have missed the part where I said I've been using CIC for almost a quarter of a century and I don't get UTI's.* Do you expect me to go broke using an unnecessary sterile procedure solely because some guy thinks I should? Thanks but I'll go with my SCVMC training and my own vast experience.

    As for the figure, the Mentor link I gave you shows the ones I buy for $25 box, the hydropillic for $350, but I just saw the later have 50 a box as opposed to 30. My bad for freaking out at seeing $350! I provided the link I wasn't trying to mislead anyone.

    *Thought I got one from a surgery center a few months ago but it wasn't one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob
    You'd think I'd have something better to do with my time than this... but sadly, I don't.

    Bob.
    Bob making me laugh, or think, is not a waste of time

    btw a pharmacy wanted to charge me about $55 for 1000cc of sterile water as I do the intravesicular ditropan procedure. I said no thanks and bought distilled water at Safeway for a couple bucks.
    Last edited by leschinsky; 10-25-2007 at 11:00 PM.
    Embrace uncertainty. Hard problems rarely have easy solutions. Jonah Lehrer

  8. #38

    Last Post

    This will be my last post on this forum.

    Please allow me to clarify my initial intentions. As far as the patients go they have the right to perform IC in any manner they want. If a certain way is working for you it would not make sense to change. I think the decision though ultimatly should be made by the patient who has to live with the results. The ONLY thing I am fighting for is for them to have this right. Insurance companies should not be dictating medical practice. A patient should not have to get two severe UTI's before they are allowed to get their caths. UtI's are not the only complication like I mentioned earlier and, it is even suprising to me the different needs we have and are lucky there are so many choices in catheters. For example the stiffness(durometer) of the catheter is crucial.I because of my spasms need a stiffer catheter. I could not even pass a red rubber catheter because it would buckle. Someone else may need the opposite because a stiff one hurts them. Anybody you ever talk with that I have helped them get their catheters paid for by an insurance company will tell you that I do not push them on what product they get or where they buy it from. Whether it has been medicaid,medicare or private insurance the case workers finally paid for their caths. I never charged them a penny. I personally think if each SCI patient did one thing either for the cure or for better patient care it would be like night and day. We do not have a strong voice in the political world and that is just a fact. They count on you giving up. I was hoping to find a few people who would help with this movement to show that SCI patients will fight for their proper treatment. I was not tying to make everybody use a sterile catheter each time. Maybe some of the people who are reusing with some success who later need sterile for some complications , will appreciate it when their insurance company actually pays for it. Maybe next Spring when the largest SCI research Bill is inroduced I can come back on the forum and get some support. This will be bigger than any other Bill introduced and it will pass.

    As far as CIC, I still stand by there are no studies that prove either sterile is better or clean is better. There are papers that give opinions and Wise Young has pointed them out but they are not studies that would be accepted even to evaluate for public policy. The FDA and CDC has already said this. My opinion is that if there is no proof either way then you would want to error on the sterile side. The complications of trauma to the urethra and friction are overwhelmingly safe guarded by using a hydrophillic new catheter each time. While I have a few disagreements with Wise Young he has gone the extra mile on this subject. One thing I can say 100% is there is no traffic jam of people on the "extra mile"

    This is a great forum with a lot of info. I just was on a thread that talked about Botox injections. I have looked into this and it will be the biggest breakthrough in bladder care for SCI patients in a long time.No more ditropan and bladder spasms. Keep an eye on this.

    For the Patient

    Steve Winter

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by leschinsky
    . . . I do the intravascular ditropan procedure. . .
    I didn't know that. It's nice to know who else is on board.

    BTW, the correct term is intravesicular, not intravascular. That is, unless you're mainlining the stuff.


    From Webster's
    ves·i·cle Pronunciation: \ˈve-si-kəl\
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle French vesicule, from Latin vesicula small bladder, blister, from diminutive of vesica1 a: a membranous and usually fluid-filled pouch (as a cyst, vacuole, or cell) in a plant or animal

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by stephen212
    I didn't know that. It's nice to know who else is on board.

    BTW, the correct term is intravesicular, not intravascular. That is, unless you're mainlining the stuff.


    From Webster's
    ves·i·cle Pronunciation: \ˈve-si-kəl\
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle French vesicule, from Latin vesicula small bladder, blister, from diminutive of vesica1 a: a membranous and usually fluid-filled pouch (as a cyst, vacuole, or cell) in a plant or animal
    LOL that's how I wrote it but I google told me I was wrong

    My former urologist from SCVMC, who's now at Stanford, introduced me to the procedure because I have the strongest bladder known to mankind [ditropan, detrol, imipramine]! I'm about to convince my insurance I need the Mitrofanoff and figure I'd better do the augmentation while I'm at it since I doubt I could handle the syringe.

    Steve maybe your message would have come across if you didn't attack people first. We're all for the patients.
    Embrace uncertainty. Hard problems rarely have easy solutions. Jonah Lehrer

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