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Thread: Vatican: a "monstrous act against human dignity"

  1. #1

    Vatican: a "monstrous act against human dignity"

    So, what do you think the Vatican thinks is a "monstrous act against human dignity". The fact that the war in Iraq has killed over 4000 coalition soldiers (Source) and 74,689-81,391 Iraqis (Source)? Or, perhaps they are referring to the huge number of children who are dying in Darfur?

    But, it turns out that Bishop Elio Sgreccia is attacking Great Britain's new policy that allows scientists to create temporary chimeric entities by injecting human nuclei into bovine eggs, to see if they can create stem cells from such chimeras. "That frontier, of the crossroads of distinct species, has been overstepped with the go-ahead of the British Government," he said (Source).

    Whose dignity is being insulted? Certainly not mine. How can it be Bishop Sgreccia's dignity? After all, he did not contribute the nucleus that was implanted nor is he affected in any way by this. Is it the dignity of the the person who donated the nucleus to be transplanted into a cow's egg? I don't think that the person is insulted in any way. Perhaps it is the dignity of the cow that donated the egg but a cow does not have human dignity.

    It is difficult for me to understand the objection of the Catholic Church to chimerism or even cloning. Do they really think that there is some kind of magical barrier between species. I assure you that we carry the genes of all sorts of other species in our bodies. Our mitochondria, for example, probably came from some organism that infected us many mlllions of years ago. Likewise, our genes come from multiple species that are probably older than the cow. What is wrong with having genes of animals within us? We have a lot of them. How does it insult our dignity.

    Please can somebody explain to this poor befuddled scientist?

  2. #2
    Humans are created in God's image. Animals were created separate to be under man's dominion. Endowing animals with a shred of humanity violates the distinction God had in mind when creating us.

    Looking at it another way, humans were again created in God's image. (God being perfect and all that, humans' genetic makeup are "perfect.") Creating a chimera disturbs/interferes/makes the product imperfect.

    He created us separate because He wanted us that way. This separation is sacred.

    There's also the specter of bestiality that I'm sure will be raised.

    At least, that's my understanding of things.

    ...and a weird 10,000th post. *sigh*
    ...it's worse than we thought. it turns out the people at the white house are not secret muslims, they're nerds.

  3. #3
    Banned adi chicago's Avatar
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    vatican and their way to act ?hmmm
    how many catholic priests abused kids [sexual abuse]?and they play god.
    excuse my language ....impale them.......
    adi the impaler...nephew of DRACULA...
    • Dum spiro, spero.
      • Translation: "As long as I breathe, I hope."

  4. #4
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    Oh, I don't think your poor or befuddled Wise Young. I think maybe your baiting us just a little. Of course the Vatican detests the actions in Iraq and Darfur. We hear about in church and the Vatican has been vocal about these subjects in public. I think you know that.

    As for the subject of cloning and chimeras, Christians see a definite difference between human life and animal life, and the difference in simplified terms is our souls. I'll bet you know that too. What would a chimera be? A soulless human? A half souled animal? I don't know. Do you? The church does not want to make the same error that got us kicked out of paradise in the first place--a sin of pride leading to the perversion of knowledge.

    But this is all academic because this is about beliefs not only science. Beliefs that will never change. But I think you know that too.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Edwards
    Humans are created in God's image. Animals were created separate to be under man's dominion. Endowing animals with a shred of humanity violates the distinction God had in mind when creating us.

    Looking at it another way, humans were again created in God's image. (God being perfect and all that, humans' genetic makeup are "perfect.") Creating a chimera disturbs/interferes/makes the product imperfect.

    He created us separate because He wanted us that way. This separation is sacred.

    There's also the specter of bestiality that I'm sure will be raised.

    At least, that's my understanding of things.

    ...and a weird 10,000th post. *sigh*
    Steven,

    Good try but I can't swallow it. It is all made up, isn't it... this business of the separation of humans and animals. I don't think that what you said is at all the Vatican's stance. Since God made everything, animals are just as "perfect" as the human. The Catholic Church believes that humans and their genes are not "perfect".

    The Catholic Church is more enlightened than the Protestant Churches concerning genetics because Catholic scientists were amongst those who discovered the gene and established the important role of genes in evolution. It is the frightening ignorance of this Bishop who apparently has no understanding and desires no understanding of genes.

    I don't think that the Catholic Church denies the existence of evolution. There is an article in Wikipedia that thoughtfully discusses the shift in the Catholic Church position from one of ignorance, to neutrality, and more recently "explicit acceptance" of evolution (Source).

    Wise.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    Steven,

    Since God made everything, animals are just as "perfect" as the human. [...]
    Wise, the Bible never claims that animals were created in God's image.

    I don't think that the Catholic Church denies the existence of evolution. There is an article in Wikipedia that thoughtfully discusses the shift in the Catholic Church position from one of ignorance, to neutrality, and more recently "explicit acceptance" of evolution (Source).

    Wise.
    They don't. They believe that God set the process of evolution into motion.

    Steven
    ...it's worse than we thought. it turns out the people at the white house are not secret muslims, they're nerds.

  7. #7
    It's all fun and games, until somebody gets hurt. Today a human and a cow, tomorrow a human and a bear, then a human and a crocodile, then......... then this earth will become a big all horror show.
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    Jesus said to him, “I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me." -John 14

  8. #8
    Banned adi chicago's Avatar
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    a simple question ....if jesus cured blind,paralysy ,resurected lazarus from death ....why the church is against cures?
    • Dum spiro, spero.
      • Translation: "As long as I breathe, I hope."

  9. #9
    I'm reading an awesome book in .pdf format called Letter to a Christian Nation. It is an atheist's response to hate mail he received from Christians. Everyone should read this, including Christians, because it is important to read the logic of those who disagree with you. If it hadn't been for the logic of others, I would have remained imprisoned in a cult. Don't let dogma confound your logic and rationale.

    If anyone is interested in reading this book, please PM me your email address and I will send it to your inbox. I had to purchase it, but it can be shared.


  10. #10
    ...it's worse than we thought. it turns out the people at the white house are not secret muslims, they're nerds.

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