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Thread: The difficulty of the Noachian Flood Story

  1. #11
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    i thought the great flood was coming...global warming...

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Type Français
    Thank you for the response, Richard. The Bible is not the only source of a fabled worldwide flood. That story actually existed in many other ancient cultures.
    How do we explain the flood legend or myth appearing in different cultures with no contact between each other? While I am skeptical of the Noahs Ark story I believe that the flood could very well have been an ancient cataclysmic climatic event.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanTPoulter
    How do we explain the flood legend or myth appearing in different cultures with no contact between each other? While I am skeptical of the Noahs Ark story I believe that the flood could very well have been an ancient cataclysmic climatic event.
    Not much more of a coincidence or mystery than that different and geographically seperated early cultures developed beliefs and myths of sky gods. In prescientific times, as in modern, people needed to believe they understood the great uncontroled forces that shaped and often ruined their lives. But in the earlier cultures they brought this need into focus in the form of stories and beliefs in great cataclysmic happenings; nation destroying plagues; great worldwide floods; etc.. We have an understanding of the forces generating weather and sickness while they did not.
    "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."
    J.B.S.Haldane

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by IanTPoulter
    How do we explain the flood legend or myth appearing in different cultures with no contact between each other? While I am skeptical of the Noahs Ark story I believe that the flood could very well have been an ancient cataclysmic climatic event.
    These cultures did have contact with each other or at least knew their beliefs if not existing at the same time period.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(mythology)


  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Type Français
    Dr. Young,

    I agree with you on this issue. What would you say to believers in the story of Noah's ark that the Grand Canyon is proof of a worldwide flood?
    Huh? What does the Grand Canyon have to do with a flood? It is just a river cutting into the rock over many years. By the way, there are lots of river canyons that are deeper and higher than the Grand Canyon. I was amazed to find that there is a gorge in Taiwan that is deeper and higher than the Grand Canyon. The Grand Canyon gets a lot more publicity.

    Wise.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Juke_spin
    No! You can take away my Easter Bunny, even take away my Santa Claus but leave me my Noachian Flood.
    Every culture has myths of origin, sexism, and cataclysmic events. In Japan, for example, according to the Shinto religion, the gods created a male and a female and gave them a jeweled halberd. They descended from the bridge of heaven and had two badly formed children because the female spoke first but then tried again with the woman not speaking and had a child that became the eight islands of Japan (Source).

    Most cultures are satisfied to impose its mythology only on its own people. The Christian religion may have been the first to try to impose its mythology on all of the people of the world. To a large extent, they have succeeded not only in terms of the Biblical mythology but even largely commercially hyped mythologies such as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Thanksgiving turkey.

    Wise.

  7. #17
    it was imposable to put , i beleive the estimate was 30 million species in the size of the ark God gave Noah plans to build. the time frame he had to gather them from around the world would have been a mircale in its self.
    oh well

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by IanTPoulter
    How do we explain the flood legend or myth appearing in different cultures with no contact between each other? While I am skeptical of the Noahs Ark story I believe that the flood could very well have been an ancient cataclysmic climatic event.
    The answer seems very straightforward. Many places have had floods and it seemed cataclysmatic to them. Of course, places that get flooded all the time probably won't think that it is so strange and wondrous. For example, I wonder if Bangladesh has a flood myth.

    The cataclysmatic events during the time when humans were on earth were relatively minor. There were a few minor ice ages, a couple of volcanoes (Pompeii, Krakatoa) and tsunamis. Regarding floods, there are several big floods that I had not heard of before. Apparently, thre were a series of catastrophic floods in the Pleistocene spillways connecting the Black, Caspian, and Aral Sea basins that show patterns that are not unlike those observed on Mars (Source). Apparently, in Southeast Australia, there were cataclysmic late Holocene floods associated with the Wollombi Brook (Source). Finally, the English channel was apparently carved out by an ancient flood that occurred hundreds of thousands of years ago (Source). Most of these floods, however, occurred before the time of Noah, which presumbly was less than 6000 years ago.

    http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/c...ract/34/11/913
    Constraining the timing of the most recent cataclysmic flood event from ice-dammed lakes in the Russian Altai Mountains, Siberia, using cosmogenic in situ 10Be
    Anne U. Reuther*,1, Jürgen Herget2, Susan Ivy-Ochs3, Pavel Borodavko4, Peter W. Kubik5 and Klaus Heine6

    1 Department of Geography, University of Regensburg, Regensburg, Germany
    2 Department of Geography, University of Bonn, Bonn, Germany
    3 Department of Geography, University of Zurich, and Particle Physics, ETH Zurich, Switzerland
    4 Laboratory of Glaciolimnology, Tomsk State University, Tomsk, Russia
    5 Paul-Scherrer Institute, Particle Physics, ETH Zurich, Switzerland
    6 Department of Geography, University of Regensburg, Regensburg, Germany

    Ice-dammed lakes were repeatedly formed in intermontane basins in the Russian Altai Mountains throughout the Pleistocene. These cataclysmic outburst floods, caused by ice-dam failures, were documented as Earth's largest flood waves by other geoscientists. Using in situ 10Be, we successfully dated surfaces of flood-associated boulders located in a former lake basin and downvalley from a former ice dam. Our precise surface exposure ages suggest that all boulders were associated with the most recent out of a number of cataclysmic floods that occurred at 15.8 ± 1.8 ka. The field location of the boulders implies that they were deposited by the largest late Pleistocene flood that drained the Chuya-Katun Lake completely following initial dam failure. A published reconstruction of the late glacial paleoenvironment in the vicinity of the former ice dam indicates that dam failure was likely a result of climatically induced downwasting of glaciers. The failure of the ice dam provides more evidence for the timing of widespread warming during the late glacial in southern Russia. This flooding event in the headwaters of the Ob River coincides with a freshwater peak as recorded in isotopic records of the Kara Sea and the Arctic Ocean.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    Huh? What does the Grand Canyon have to do with a flood? It is just a river cutting into the rock over many years. By the way, there are lots of river canyons that are deeper and higher than the Grand Canyon. I was amazed to find that there is a gorge in Taiwan that is deeper and higher than the Grand Canyon. The Grand Canyon gets a lot more publicity.

    Wise.
    Why the huh? I'm not the one suggesting anything stupid. I was asking why Biblical fundamentalists use the Grand Canyon as an example of proof of a worldwide flood. I cannot tell you how many fundamentalists have done so. You'll watch a video entitled Is There Proof of God? and BINGO!, the Grand Canyon proves Noah's flood story.


  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Type Français
    Why the huh? I'm not the one suggesting anything stupid. I was asking why Biblical fundamentalists use the Grand Canyon as an example of proof of a worldwide flood. I cannot tell you how many fundamentalists have done so. You'll watch a video entitled Is There Proof of God? and BINGO!, the Grand Canyon proves Noah's flood story.
    I noticed that too. It's like the way Wise used my little tongue-in-cheek sarcasm about myths to launch into their origins - like my aggitation were on the level.
    "The world will not perish for want of wonders but for want of wonder."
    J.B.S.Haldane

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