Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: so my dog ate my 4-AP

  1. #1

    so my dog ate my 4-AP

    let me preface this with: he's fine.

    i elbowed it off the table without even knowing it was there. a few hours later our 13lb terrier thing was shaking uncontrollably. he was bug-eyed, paranoid, and could not work his back legs. but he slept it off ok. we would have taken him to the vet but it was 9pm sunday night. so now we know 13lbs of dog wont necessarily die from 10mg of 4-AP....i keep the pill in a dish so it wont roll of the table now.

  2. #2
    Watch out, he will become a super dog!!!

  3. #3
    haha...he did NOT like that trip...

  4. #4
    Two days ago my cat ate a 1/4 of a 10mg capsule of 4-AP. within an hour she was shaking, scared and foaming at the mouth. We took her to the vet that morning and by late afternoon she was fine.
    Injured May 19, 2006, C4 incomplete

  5. #5
    Senior Member mr_coffee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    6,030
    LOL loved the stories.

    I fed my 4-ap to my brother, unfortunatley no foaming of the mouth, just alittle buzzy.

    He's 23.
    Last edited by mr_coffee; 09-01-2007 at 01:00 AM.
    Injured:10-16-04
    C7/C8, T1 incomplete;


    For stalkers convenience:
    Blog:
    http://www.ordealsonwheels.com/
    Facebook:
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/coryssanchez
    Progress:
    http://photobucket.com/albums/b290/swooty/
    My drawings:
    http://kanvases.com/sites/corysanchez/home

  6. #6
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Windsor ON Canada
    Posts
    18,154
    If I'm not mistaken, it would be like poison. I assume the vet called the poison control centre? 4-ap has its dirivatives in bird poison ... I could be completely wrong but ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-aminopyridine
    4-aminopyridine is marketed as an avicide under the trade name Avitrol. In this treatment it causes convulsions and sometimes death, depending on dosage. Because other members of a flock sometimes are frightened away by poisoned birds, it is described as a bird "frightening agent".
    Make America Sane Again. lol

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

  7. #7
    4 AP is some scary stuff when you read up on it a bit. Is this stuff really 100% safe? No wonder your dogs and cats were wigging out.

    http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/4-aminop.htm

    Toxicological Effects:
    • Acute toxicity: 4-Aminopyridine is highly toxic to mammals. The central nervous system is strongly excited by 4-aminopyridine. Based on observations with 2-aminopyridine, a similar compound, individuals with a history of convulsive disorders may be at an increased risk from exposure to 4-aminopyridine [30,31]. The principal action of 4-aminopyridine in the body is to encourage message-carrying (transmitter) substances to be released throughout the nervous system, overstimulating it [68]. While intended strictly for use as a bird repellent, accidental ingestion of as little as 60 mg has caused severe poisoning in adult humans [68]. It is rapidly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract [8]. Poisonings are characterized by thirst, nausea, dizziness, weakness, and intense sweating, followed by impairment of normal mental functioning (toxic psychosis), lack of muscular coordination, tremors, labored breathing, and generalized seizures [167]. Symptoms of Avitrol poisoning in rats, dogs, and horses include over-production of saliva, tendency to become over-stimulated, and trembling, which can progress to convulsions. Death can result from respiratory arrest or heart failure [23,30]. Skin exposure to Avitrol may lead to systemic intoxication or general overall poisoning [30]. Avitrol may contribute to the excessive formation of a substance called methemoglobin. Methemoglobin is similar to hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying part of the blood, except that it cannot carry oxygen. When there is excess methemoglobin in the blood, oxygen cannot be transported and blood eventually becomes oxygen depleted, resulting in the condition methemoglobinemia. The LD50 for 4-aminopyridine is 20 to 29 mg/kg in rats, and is 3.7 mg/kg in dogs [8,167]. It is readily absorbed through the skin [23]. The dermal LD50 is 326 mg/kg in rabbits [23,30]. 4-Aminopyridine is an eye irritant. Inflammation of the iris and conjunctivitis were noted in the eyes of albino rabbits 1 hour after 10 mg of 4-aminopyridine hydrochloride were applied. These symptoms disappeared after 7 days [167].
    • Chronic toxicity: High dietary doses (2 to 3.25 mg/kg/day) caused increased brain weight. Brain appearance remained normal [167]. However, since dietary intake is assumed to be negligible, and because significant repeated exposure is not expected to occur, EPA has not required long-term toxicity studies of 4-aminopyridine [167].
    • Reproductive effects: No data are currently available.
    • Teratogenic effects: No data are currently available.
    • Mutagenic effects: No data are currently available.
    • Carcinogenic effects: No data are currently available.
    • Organ toxicity: Chronic exposure to 4-aminopyridine can cause the breakdown of proper liver and brain functioning [8]. No effects were found in the blood and urine of rats and dogs.
    • Fate in humans and animals: 4-Aminopyridine is rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream from the gastrointestinal tract [8]. It is readily broken down, or metabolized, in the liver into removable compounds excreted in urine [30]. After intravenous and oral doses were given to humans, 90.6% and 88.5% was excreted in the urine [167]. It does not to concentrate or accumulate in skin. Birds killed with Aritrol are not poisonous to predators [8,30].
    Ecological Effects:
    • Effects on birds: 4-Aminopyridine is highly toxic to birds. The 8-day dietary LC50 is 447 ppm in Japanese quail, 316 ppm in mourning doves, and 722 ppm in mallard ducks [167]. Avian reproduction studies suggest ingestion of sublethal amounts of 4-aminopyridine is unlikely to cause negative effects on birds' reproductive systems [8]. There is a large potential for exposure of non-target, particularly grain-feeding birds. Migratory birds, finches, and other small seed-feeding birds may ingest lethal doses that are applied to corn and sunflower fields.
    • Effects on aquatic organisms: 4-Aminopyridine is moderately toxic to warmwater fish. Fish become increasingly sensitive with increased exposure [167]. The LC50 ranges from 4 mg/L (in soft water) to 2.43 mg/L (in hard water) in channel catfish. The LC50 in is 3.40 mg/L (in soft water) to 3.20 mg/L (hard water) in bluegill [37].
    • Effects on other organisms: Endangered species may be adversely affected by 4-aminopyridine [167]. There is low or nonexistent potential for secondary poisoning in animals such as cats, dogs, or birds of prey that may feed upon birds killed by Avitrol [167].
    Environmental Fate:
    • Breakdown in soil and groundwater: 4-Aminopyridine is readily adsorbed to soil particles and is highly persistent [167]. It is broken down slowly by soil microorganisms. It is more likely to remain near the soil surface where most microbial degradation tends to occur [167]. The half-life of 4-aminopyridine in soil with oxygen ranges from 3 months in clay soil to 32 months in sandy-loam soils. The rate at which 4-aminopyridine is metabolized in aerobic soil increases with greater amounts of organic matter [167]. Studies indicate that 4-aminopyridine is relatively immobile in soils. It is not expected to be present in groundwater as a result of its use on land [167].
    • Breakdown in water: 4-Aminopyridine is not expected to be present in surface water as a result of land application of formulated products [167].
    • Breakdown in vegetation: Available plant metabolism data on sorghum indicate that some breakdown of 4-aminopyridine does occur, with three breakdown products; however, no metabolites were found in corn. 4-Aminopyridine is absorbed and moved from one part of a plant to another to varying degrees, depending on the manner in which it is applied. Plant uptake of 4-AP is not expected to be significant in corn and sunflowers [167].
    "So I have stayed as I am, without regret, seperated from the normal human condition." Guy Sajer

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Sue Pendleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Wisconsin USA
    Posts
    10,997
    Especially in small dogs or cats see a vet right away or call them. 4-AP is a potassium channel blocker which does not mean the animal is losing potassium. Most MDs prescribe 5mg twice a day to begin and ramp doses to about 40-45mg in normal size adults. So 10mg in a 13lb dog can cause seizures that could kill especially if the dog has an undiagnosed neurological condition.

    Lynnifer and Mike are right. And Coffee...there are laws about buzzing someone without permission!
    Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "I will try again tomorrow."

    Disclaimer: Answers, suggestions, and/or comments do not constitute medical advice expressed or implied and are based solely on my experiences as a SCI patient. Please consult your attending physician for medical advise and treatment. In the event of a medical emergency please call 911.

  9. #9
    Senior Member mr_coffee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    6,030
    Sue,

    My brother asked to take my pills hah.

    He enjoys pills to see what they will do to him. I do recall him snorting asprin once, I was amazed as I saw chunks of asprin fly up his nose and wonder what drives him to be that retarded somtimes.

    When I got my wisdom teeth out he stole all my f'ing pain killers, I don't use them because they f up your bowel movements but still, my pills!

    I remember when I told my SCI doc I was on 4-AP he was like,WHY, who gave you these!? Do they work? IF SO WHY? hah, he's a funny guy.

    I do recall him telling me they were bird posion but whatever it works for me so I'll keep at it. It makes perfect sense for an incomplete to take them once you read about what it does,

    A drug that blocks the potassium channels in neurons. WHen your nerves get f'ed up they leak out potassium constantly, which can block transmissions. And the pill effectively improves the transmission of nerve impulses down damaged axons by stopping the leakage of potassium.
    Last edited by mr_coffee; 09-01-2007 at 01:40 AM.
    Injured:10-16-04
    C7/C8, T1 incomplete;


    For stalkers convenience:
    Blog:
    http://www.ordealsonwheels.com/
    Facebook:
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/coryssanchez
    Progress:
    http://photobucket.com/albums/b290/swooty/
    My drawings:
    http://kanvases.com/sites/corysanchez/home

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Sue Pendleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Wisconsin USA
    Posts
    10,997
    Get yourself a pill safe Cof and introduce your brother to RXlist.com for warnings and precautions for script meds. For 4-aminopyridine google it with California to get the bird info and 'stupid brother tricks' for snorting aspirin. . And for each dentist prescribed pain pill add one more colace or 6 or 7 dried prunes. Oh, and 2 glasses of water. Even ABs have this problem and more dentists do give people info on avoiding a trip to the proctologist.

    And yea, I've had ER docs and hospitalists ask me about the 4-AP. My neuro just wanted to know where I got it and my experience at what doses.
    Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "I will try again tomorrow."

    Disclaimer: Answers, suggestions, and/or comments do not constitute medical advice expressed or implied and are based solely on my experiences as a SCI patient. Please consult your attending physician for medical advise and treatment. In the event of a medical emergency please call 911.

Similar Threads

  1. Training your own service dog?
    By jimnms in forum Life
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-07-2011, 07:30 PM
  2. Fonts, fonts, and fonts
    By Wise Young in forum Computers
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 10-04-2007, 09:35 PM
  3. for the dog lovers
    By . in forum Life
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-11-2004, 03:54 PM
  4. Court rules that disabled woman's dog is not equipment
    By antiquity in forum Ability & Disability News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-12-2003, 07:00 AM
  5. This dog does laundry and serves up water
    By antiquity in forum Life
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-09-2002, 06:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •