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Thread: Sicko

  1. #11
    Moderator Obieone's Avatar
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    Haven't seen the film yet, just short clips, but I look forward to seeing it in its intireity.

    I won't disagree that our system here in Canada is not without its shortcomings ... we've had to wait for Ultrasounds and Mri's as well! That being said I could never imagine having to worry about the financial implications of medical care on top of all the other stresses of dealing with a catastrophic medical crisis like sci or cancer. I would never be in favour of private health care .. like any other business we must continually find ways to make our system more efficient. One of the biggest obstacles to that end is human resources and that is certainly not an issue unique to Canada!

    Obieone
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  2. #12
    I've seen the movie and will take what Moore presented into consideration as I do my own research to confirm his data. On a side note, Moore has been quoted as stating he is open to electronic distribution of Sicko as long as the downloader does not use his film to turn a profit. A torrent to Sicko is available here: http://www.mininova.org/tor/752157

    Mods, please use your wisdom to edit/delete/etc my post should you feel the good of the community necessitates the action.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRainman
    +6

    Cheesecake

    You would be waiting in canada to. If its not an emergancy need you go on a waiting list.
    Well sorry but the diagnosis is a emergency. I have been toldif I pay the $100 for an ER visit,I might be able to get it done that way,unfortunately,my insurance does not pay for hospital based MRI.
    Every day I wake up is a good one

  4. #14
    I'm a big fan of our system. If it didn't exist, I'd be absolutely screwed. SCI sucks but money is not something I have to worry about. Like its been said, there are long waits for non-emergency treatment, but when the shit hits the fan, the system works.

    I'll see Sicko sometime this week. A friend of a friend runs michaelmoore.com. I have a hunch that's where the master was kept.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SCI-Nurse
    The government (the VA) already determines what I and the doctors I work with make. No one gets rich, but we have a comfortable income that is comparable to the community. I don't know any nurses who went into nursing to get rich. It isn't going to happen in our current system or in a different system. I don't see the reason that physicians should automatically assume that they will be rich just because they are a physician. The government (through Medicaid and Medicare) and big business (insurance companies) already determine a lot of what physicians make and what they can charge. The film addresses this issue quite directly in the British NHS example shown.

    There is no evidence from many studies that health care that is free is abused. Do you have studies showing this?

    Health care that is needed is denied by insurance companies. Physicians don't determine now who gets health care and who does not...insurance companies do.

    The analogy with SS is flawed. As you say, SS was developed as a safety net and back-up, not as the only income source after retirement. But insurance company's sell their product to take care of all your needs, then renig on this promise as much as they can. Their entire purpose in life is to NOT pay off on policies. That is also clearly presented in the film.

    (KLD)
    KLD

    A study on abuse or fraud with insurance. I don't have time to fine all the arrticles all over the net. But it wouldn't be hard to fine. Many people don't look at it as a crime.

    In the state of Florida and many other states have a law that every auto policy must carry personal injury protection, which pays for yourself medical coverage when you go to the emergency. Hospitals claim they would go broke without this policy. Insurance companies claim they could lower the average premium by 20%. Hospitals rob the insurance companies by over charging them on every procedure. They gave some examples. One that sticks out in my mine is the cost they were charging insurance companies for some kind of xray. They were charging medicare like 800.00 and charging insurance companies 4000.00. Then you got some insured claiming they got hurt in their car so the PIP picks up the tab. I had a woman recently claim she stumpled getting into her car and hit her mouth on the steering wheel broke her tooth. She didn't want to get the tooth fix right now, but she wanted the cash right now.

    The real problem is a lot of people don't want to take responsibility for themselves. I know a lot of small business owners. I was talking to one of them about this health care situation. He has about 40 employees. Offers health and dental to each. He pays like 70% of it the rest the employee is responible for. About 20% asked if they could forget the health care and make in extra 1.00 per hour. Their attitude was that their young and didn't need it.

    I had a young man come in today. 31yrs old, 2 kids. Getting a divorce. Had his new girlfriend by his side. Tells me he wants to cancel his life policy because he dosn't need it any more. I wasn't his agent on that policy so I couldn't ask him who was going to pay for his 2 kids if something happen to him. They don't care. I can go on and on with stories like that.

  6. #16
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christopher
    ...Like its been said, there are long waits for non-emergency treatment, but when the shit hits the fan, the system works.
    I completely agree.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member kate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRainman
    The real problem is a lot of people don't want to take responsibility for themselves. I know a lot of small business owners. I was talking to one of them about this health care situation. He has about 40 employees. Offers health and dental to each. He pays like 70% of it the rest the employee is responible for. About 20% asked if they could forget the health care and make in extra 1.00 per hour. Their attitude was that their young and didn't need it.
    the real problem?

    sorry, but the real problem is that a lot of people are screwed coming and going. tell me what is rational about a system that saves its harshest punishment for the people in the middle--me and my family.

    middle class. 2 kids. saving ever so carefully for retirement and college expenses. no fancy houses, vacations, boats, just a good plan and steady work.

    what does our system say to me?

    screw you.

    it says, since you weren't a slacker expecting a free ride, we're willing to take every nickel you saved and use it to pay for the same quality of care that you would get for nothing if you lived 150 miles north.

    what's more, we're going to go on giving a free ride to those people who really were slackers.

    see, here's the deal. i don't mind paying into a system that treats everybody the same. but i'll be goddammed if it's right for the middle class to get squeezed when it comes to their own care while paying higher premiums to cover the poor . . . and the people who are raking in $$$$ by the truckload are insurance companies and pharmaceuticals.

    that is wrong, and it's stupid, and it's got nothing to do with personal responsibility. it's got to do with some people at the tippy top of the iceberg taking advantage of a broken system.

  8. #18

    I like our System

    I have met many seniors who used to go to the States every winter, some even stayed there until later years. But when they got older and started having health issues, they packed their bags and headed back to a place they would be looked after without having to spend their nest egg.
    Our system is good. There are a lot of nurses who train here and go to the States also. There are even some who returned here.
    Freedom has nothing to do with whether you have a good health system. What is freedom if someone is oppressing the weak, sick and poor?

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kate
    the real problem?

    sorry, but the real problem is that a lot of people are screwed coming and going. tell me what is rational about a system that saves its harshest punishment for the people in the middle--me and my family.

    middle class. 2 kids. saving ever so carefully for retirement and college expenses. no fancy houses, vacations, boats, just a good plan and steady work.

    what does our system say to me?

    screw you.

    it says, since you weren't a slacker expecting a free ride, we're willing to take every nickel you saved and use it to pay for the same quality of care that you would get for nothing if you lived 150 miles north.

    what's more, we're going to go on giving a free ride to those people who really were slackers.

    see, here's the deal. i don't mind paying into a system that treats everybody the same. but i'll be goddammed if it's right for the middle class to get squeezed when it comes to their own care while paying higher premiums to cover the poor . . . and the people who are raking in $$$$ by the truckload are insurance companies and pharmaceuticals.

    that is wrong, and it's stupid, and it's got nothing to do with personal responsibility. it's got to do with some people at the tippy top of the iceberg taking advantage of a broken system.
    Kate

    Read what I wrote again. I basically said the slackers are killing the system. The slackers which are many of them don't care to pay for health care or save for their retirement. They want Uncle Sam to do it for them. Thats what socialism is all about.

    Kate, I don't know the answers. But I do know socialize medicine wont work here. I'm all for what Michael Moore is doing as far as raising awareness of the problem. But he's an artist. He doesn't understand the budget can't support it.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by murrey
    I have met many seniors who used to go to the States every winter, some even stayed there until later years. But when they got older and started having health issues, they packed their bags and headed back to a place they would be looked after without having to spend their nest egg.
    Our system is good. There are a lot of nurses who train here and go to the States also. There are even some who returned here.
    Freedom has nothing to do with whether you have a good health system. What is freedom if someone is oppressing the weak, sick and poor?
    Murrey

    You got it all wrong about America. The weak and the poor oppress themselves by not acting responsible before something bad happens. The weak and the poor oppress the responsilbe people like Kate and I who are responsible and have to pay extra high premiums and other cost for the ones that don't want to.

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