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Thread: IT Industry Forecasts

  1. #1
    Senior Member mattblan's Avatar
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    IT Industry Forecasts

    Hey, I came across these articles on Slashdot today. I know there are more than a few people in IT on this site so I thought you might want to take a look. One of the things that shocked me was they said C language programming was dying out. I'd like to know what they think people will use in systems programming if this is true? Also, in one of the articles they said ALL programming was dying and that programmers will be either outsourced or automated by 2010...

    Here are the articles:

    1. Careers: IT Profession 2010
    Hot Skills, Cold Skills
    The IT worker of 2010 won't be a technology guru but rather a 'versatilist.'
    http://www.computerworld.com/action/...ticleId=112360

    2. The top 10 dead (or dying) computer skills
    Are your skills in need of upgrading?
    http://www.computerworld.com/action/...2&pageNumber=1

  2. #2
    Senior Member mr_coffee's Avatar
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    After working here at IBM they are converting alot of old programs written in C/C++ to Java.

    Actually thats one of my jobs is doing a massive project working on IBM's zNetView product and re-writing it to support IPv6 rather than IPv4 and it will be done in Java.

    The reason is simple, look at the comparision:
    The C code to establish a socket connection is:
    int set_up_socket(u_short port) {
    char myname[MAXHOSTNAME+1];
    /*Horrid C Sockets*/
    int s;
    struct sockaddr_in sa;
    struct hostent *he;

    bzero(&sa,sizeof(struct sockaddr_in));
    /* clear the address */
    gethostname(myname,MAXHOSTNAME);
    /* establish identity */
    he= gethostbyname(myname);
    /* get our address */
    if (he == NULL)
    /* if addr not
    found... */
    return(-1);
    sa.sin_family= he->h_addrtype;
    /* host address */
    sa.sin_port= htons(port);
    /* port number */

    if ((s= socket(AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM,0)) <0)
    /* finally, create socket */
    return(-1);
    if (bind(s, &sa, sizeof(sa), 0) < 0) {
    close(s);
    return(-1);
    /* bind address
    to socket */
    }

    listen(s, 3);
    /* max queued
    connections */
    return(s);
    }

    the equivalent Java code is:
    ServerSocket servsock = new ServerSocket(port, 3);

    Also automation isn't going to take over programmers nor is outsourcing.

    People only post the successes who want to support the outsourcing move. People who look at both sides will see, outsourcing has major issues.

    Just a small misunderstanding in the translation of instructions will be a disaster and alot of the code is poor quality. outsourcing companies from other companies will claim they know .net/java/c++ whatever, and when they get the code back its insane and poorly written.

    Run of the mill programmers who got their degree from DeVry might have to worry about finding a job, but people who actually know what they are doing won't have any issues ever finding a job in my opinion.

    IBM is also doing alot of automation, some of my friends are working on it actually. But the automation isn't programming automation, its configuration automation. Making several different products integrate together with ease. So you don't need to waste time spending hours configuring a system.

    Programmers being replaced by automation/outsourcing by 2010 is like saying, by 2010 we will all be driving hover cars and computers will take over the world.

    Also I agree with the statement, the C programming language is dying. Applications that arnt' related to system programming wouldn't use C.

    C is hard to maintain, ugly looking, but runs fast. But how much faster? Not much compared to C++. C++ you can at least make Object Oriented, while with C, you can't which == ugly non humpable code. Yes you can make sweet love to a nicely written program.

    So if I had a choice I would choose any other language over C if I had to write any type of application. You can write an operating system in any language you want (I think). I know you can with Java at least. But I wouldn't recommend it. You can tell the difference when you see a program written in C++ and a program written in Java when it comes to speed. Java is very portable though, so you don't have to re-write your application if you want to port it to say a Linux system if you coded it on windows which is very nice.

    If I wanted to do somthing fast, I would use some ASM inside my C# or Java code, or C++ code.
    Last edited by mr_coffee; 05-24-2007 at 09:54 PM.
    Injured:10-16-04
    C7/C8, T1 incomplete;


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  3. #3
    Senior Member mike's Avatar
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    I am certainly not expert in programming, but I have read that India has one of the finast IT schools in the world and the average graduates work for about $8-10K per year compared to $30-40K per year for U.S. programmers. It is hard to be competitive with that.
    mike

  4. #4
    I struggle with programming, but have still taken true basic, visual basic, C++ and just finished Java. I agree that the C codes are going out, and have been for a while. Java is better in my opinion and I see it being the norm for some time.
    C2/3 quad since February 20, 1985.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_coffee
    After working here at IBM they are converting alot of old programs written in C/C++ to Java.
    I think this is the case with a lot of places. I did a work term at EA and it was the same thing, they had one team dedicated to converting older C based programs into Java. And that was three years ago.

    At the university I was studying at before I was hurt they no longer teach C++ as the foundation programming course. It is a now a full year of Java instead. C++ is still taught in the department but the focus has definately shifted to Java. I don't know about other schools though.

  6. #6
    Senior Member mr_coffee's Avatar
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    Orangejello,

    Most schools are like that now, which sucks is Penn State still focuses on C++ as the core programming lang.

    They are just now offering a Java course. I find it amazing how far behind they are in that respect.

    I just got done teaching myself the syntax in a few days and I'm loving not having to worry about memory leaks!
    Injured:10-16-04
    C7/C8, T1 incomplete;


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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_coffee
    Orangejello,

    Most schools are like that now, which sucks is Penn State still focuses on C++ as the core programming lang.

    They are just now offering a Java course. I find it amazing how far behind they are in that respect.

    I just got done teaching myself the syntax in a few days and I'm loving not having to worry about memory leaks!

    A little input from a techno-dinosaur.
    I've been in software development since 1979.
    One of my first jobs involved programming in assembler on a machine with 8k of ram. That. I think, explains how and why certain languages were used and why they have been abandoned.
    Resources, like memory and speed have become infinitely cheaper. No real demand for tight coding.
    Now I work at testing and integration - everything is Java or Javascript.
    This past year I've seen many projects shift to Open Source venues like Eclipse.
    Jave is the future - maybe Ruby.
    Learn to write code and good documents. You'll always be in demand.

  8. #8
    Schools are behind the times, unfortunately. I have a college about 10 minutes away, but they teach C++ and nothing of Java. Therefore, I drive an hour each way three times a week to a better school, with ever increasing gas prices.
    C2/3 quad since February 20, 1985.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by trainman
    Schools are behind the times, unfortunately. I have a college about 10 minutes away, but they teach C++ and nothing of Java. Therefore, I drive an hour each way three times a week to a better school, with ever increasing gas prices.
    Aw that is not good...especially with current gas prices The university I was at started the shift to Java as the core programming language about five years ago, although there was considerable resistance from some of the faculty who considered C++ sacred and untouchable lol.

    Cory I hope the IBM gig is going great

  10. #10
    BAHH!!! pascal and qbasic 4life....

    CLS
    PRINT "Blasphemy"
    PRINT
    PRINT "I'll pwn the noob that disagrees."

    J/K.... I will now pass unto you the true power of JAVA!!!

    go to a site with lots of images and type the following into the address bar:

    javascript:R=0; x1=.1; y1=.05; x2=.25; y2=.24; x3=1.6; y3=.24; x4=300; y4=200; x5=300; y5=200; DI=document.getElementsByTagName("img"); DIL=DI.length; function A(){for(i=0; i-DIL; i++){DIS=DI[ i ].style; DIS.position='absolute'; DIS.left=(Math.sin(R*x1+i*x2+x3)*x4+x5)+"px"; DIS.top=(Math.cos(R*y1+i*y2+y3)*y4+y5)+"px"}R++}se tInterval('A()',5); void(0);
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