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Thread: Dumb Question About Flying

  1. #1
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    Dumb Question About Flying

    Why don't the airlines have it so you can sit in your own chair when flying? I mean if you're going to crash .. there will hardly be any survivors anyway. What's the difference between being strapped down in a plane and being strapped down in a vehicle and wearing a seatbelt. I understand there would be turbulence .. but .. I'd be more worried of what's falling out of the overhead bins. I'm just curious why the airlines and the ADA haven't worked towards this ... being able to remove a few seats to accommodate wheelchairs.

    Sure I could transfer .. but it's the washroom situation I'm worried about since I don't catheterize but use crede.

    I'll be finished paying off my car a year early and David and I are thinking about taking a trip along the west coast for late 2008 starting from Vancouver.

    P.S. I've obviously never been on a plane in my life... lol ...
    Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

  2. #2
    I'd rather be in my chair also. "if" you did crash and then survive do you think someones going to be digging around to bring you your chair? I don't know if you could wheel over the burning rubble anyway but I don't like my chair where I can't reach it. And I haven't been on a plane post injury so I'm just rambling.
    If you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.


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  3. #3
    Senior Member Annabanana's Avatar
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    There is no way I would trust a hostie to secure my chair for takeoffs and landings! Each chair is different as to where you strap them down and locating secure anchor points on the chairs. Not only are you then trusting their equipment, but you are also trusting that your chair is gunna hold to the anchor....if not it could become a missile.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Clipper's Avatar
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    1. The aisle is far too narrow for a wheelchair to maneuver. You'd never get your chair down to the tie-down spot.

    2. Even one removed seat would mean a huge loss in revenue when it goes unused.

    3. Tie-downs could never meet certification standards. Aircraft seats are designed to meet crash/impact standards. Not all accidents involve loss of life, e.g. the Air France runway incident a while back in Toronto.

  5. #5
    true true. obviously I don't fly much. (:
    If you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.


    Sometimes it is easier to widen doors than it is to open minds.

  6. #6
    It would be a huge safety factor as far as tiedowns go and there's no way to fit a normal wheelchair in anywhere other than first class and even then, not through the aisles.
    Daniel

  7. #7
    Senior Member Broknwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clipper
    1. The aisle is far too narrow for a wheelchair to maneuver. You'd never get your chair down to the tie-down spot.

    2. Even one removed seat would mean a huge loss in revenue when it goes unused.

    3. Tie-downs could never meet certification standards. Aircraft seats are designed to meet crash/impact standards. Not all accidents involve loss of life, e.g. the Air France runway incident a while back in Toronto.

    1) if they make the first row of seats from where the entry door is the w/c accessible seats it would not be "far too narrow"...I've gotten my w/c in many planes to the first rows of seats.

    2) they could make the airline seat removable much like they make the front passenger seats in van conversions removable, therefore making it such that the seats would NOT go unused/unsold when a chair user was not onboard...The removed seats could be stored in the cargo area of the plane so as they could be re-installed at the destination before re-boarding the next passengers.

    3) There's no reason why tie-downs couldn't meet certification standards. If they can meet safety standards for automobile crash ratings, then they can be made for airline crash ratings. not THAT much difference in making them to meet impact/wight/drop force ratings...and YES, I DO have knowledge about rigging and weight certifications...I'm not randomly speaking out my ass...


    Lynnifer-
    the washrooms are horrendously small and whereas I can get myself into them, it's a balancing act...That in itself is one area where I think aerospace engineers need to work on improving their designs drastically. HOWEVER I don't forsee them ever making them large enough to fit a w/c in b/c they'd take up too much real-estate...
    'Chelle
    L-1 inc 11/24/03

    "My Give-a-Damn's Busted"......

  8. #8
    Senior Member Clipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broknwing
    3) There's no reason why tie-downs couldn't meet certification standards. If they can meet safety standards for automobile crash ratings, then they can be made for airline crash ratings. not THAT much difference in making them to meet impact/wight/drop force ratings...and YES, I DO have knowledge about rigging and weight certifications...I'm not randomly speaking out my ass...
    Safety standards for commercial aircraft are VERY different than those for automobiles. Below are excerpts of the certification standards for such aircraft. I've bolded key points.

    Each occupant of a seat that makes more than an 18-degree angle with the vertical plane containing the airplane centerline must be protected from head injury by a safety belt and an energy absorbing rest that will support the arms, shoulders, head, and spine, or by a safety belt and shoulder harness that will prevent the head from contacting any injurious object. Each occupant of any other seat must be protected from head injury by a safety belt and, as appropriate to the type, location, and angle of facing of each seat, by one or more of the following: (1) A shoulder harness that will prevent the head from contacting any injurious object. (2) The elimination of any injurious object within striking radius of the head. (3) An energy absorbing rest that will support the arms, shoulders, head, and spine.

    The airplane, although it may be damaged in emergency landing conditions on land or water, must be designed as prescribed in this section to protect each occupant under those conditions. ... The structure must be designed to give each occupant every reasonable chance of escaping serious injury in a minor crash landing when ... the occupant experiences the following ultimate inertia forces acting separately relative to the surrounding structure:

    - Upward, 3.0g
    - Forward, 9.0g
    - Sideward, 3.0g on the airframe
    - Sideward, 4.0g on the seats and their attachments
    - Downward, 6.0g
    - Rearward, 1.5g

    Seats and items of mass (and their supporting structure) must not deform under any loads up to those specified [above] in any manner that would impede subsequent rapid evacuation of occupants.

    The seat and restraint system in the airplane must be designed as prescribed in this section to protect each occupant during an emergency landing condition ...

    Each seat type design approved for crew or passenger occupancy during takeoff and landing must successfully complete dynamic tests or be demonstrated by rational analysis based on dynamic tests of a similar type seat, in accordance with each of the following emergency landing conditions. ...

    - A change in downward vertical velocity (Δ v) of not less than 35 feet per second, with the airplane's longitudinal axis canted downward 30 degrees with respect to the horizontal plane and with the wings level. Peak floor deceleration must occur in not more than 0.08 seconds after impact and must reach a minimum of 14g.

    - A change in forward longitudinal velocity (Δ v) of not less than 44 feet per second, with the airplane's longitudinal axis horizontal and yawed 10 degrees either right or left, whichever would cause the greatest likelihood of the upper torso restraint system (where installed) moving off the occupant's shoulder, and with the wings level. Peak floor deceleration must occur in not more than 0.09 seconds after impact and must reach a minimum of 16g. Where floor rails or floor fittings are used to attach the seating devices to the test fixture, the rails or fittings must be misaligned with respect to the adjacent set of rails or fittings by at least 10 degrees vertically (i.e., out of Parallel) with one rolled 10 degrees.

    Each occupant must be protected from serious head injury under the conditions prescribed [above]. Where head contact with seats or other structure can occur, protection must be provided so that the head impact does not exceed a Head Injury Criterion (HIC) of 1,000 units.

    The seat must remain attached at all points of attachment, although the structure may have yielded.

    Seats must not yield under the tests specified [above] to the extent they would impede rapid evacuation of the airplane occupants.

    Standards for automobiles are far less stringent and can be found in Title 49 CFR, Part 571. Removable seats or tie-downs wouldn't come close to meeting aircraft cert standards.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by lynnifer
    Why don't the airlines have it so you can sit in your own chair when flying? I mean if you're going to crash .. there will hardly be any survivors anyway. What's the difference between being strapped down in a plane and being strapped down in a vehicle and wearing a seatbelt. I understand there would be turbulence .. but .. I'd be more worried of what's falling out of the overhead bins. I'm just curious why the airlines and the ADA haven't worked towards this ... being able to remove a few seats to accommodate wheelchairs.

    Sure I could transfer .. but it's the washroom situation I'm worried about since I don't catheterize but use crede.

    I'll be finished paying off my car a year early and David and I are thinking about taking a trip along the west coast for late 2008 starting from Vancouver.

    P.S. I've obviously never been on a plane in my life... lol ...
    Anything to avoid the aisle chair.
    T6 complete (or so I think), SCI since September 21, 2003

  10. #10
    Suspended Andy's Avatar
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    One thought about this: How many wheelchairs have seatbelts? The chair might not go anywhere, but you might.

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