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Thread: Snow Job on the New Jersey ESCR bill?

  1. #21
    Banned Faye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    • She has suggested that my group (the Keck Center) is receiving funding from New Jersey to do adult stem cell research.

    Of the 17 grants awarded by the state, four were to Rutgers (my university):
    • Rick Cohen Ph.D Rutgers University $299,403
      Center for Applied Training in Human Embryonic Stem Cell Biology
      To provide basic and advanced training in the field of human embryonic stem cell biology and to develop a well-trained pool of scientists in New Jersey proficient in hESC culture techniques with the goal of advancing New Jersey’s leadership in stem cell research.
    • Ronald Hart Ph.D.Rutgers University $275,590
      Regulation of microRNA Gene Expression in Differentiating Neural Stem Cells
      To understand and control differentiation of neural stem cells with the potential to produce specific cell types for therapeutic transplant in brain trauma, stroke, spinal cord injury, Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s disease.
    • Hristo Houbaviy Rutgers University $300,000
      MicroRNAs MiR-290-295 in Blastocyst-Derived Stem Cells and the Early Mouse Embryo
      To understand stem cell development and lineage determination with the goal of expanding and improving knowledge of areas of stem cell biology currently not well understood.
    • Jay Tischfield Ph.D Rutgers University $300,000
      Genetic and Structural Analysis of Mouse ES Cells and their Derivatives
      To study cultured ESC and confirm, monitor and regulate phenomena that would be deleterious to tissues derived from stems cells with the potential to prevent problems that could slow development of stem cell therapies.
    Please note that I am not amongst these awardees. Two of them, however, are from my Center: Rick Cohen and Ron Hart. Rick is working on human embryonic stem cells and the goal of this grant at the Keck Center is "...to provide basic and advanced training in the field of human embryonic stem cell biology and to develop a well-trained pool of scientists in New Jersey proficient in hESC culture techniques with the goal of advancing New Jersey’s leadership in stem cell research."
    This is 1.2 million dollars going to Rutgers for ASCR!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    • Faye claims that the New Jersey stem cell legislation was for embryonic stem cells only.-
    Wise.
    I NEVER said that. Though it is considered an ESCR bill just like the prop 71 bill, it's intent was to fund primarily ESCR which is neglected by NIH.

    CIRM is living up to this promise. BUT NJ stem cell bill is NOT.

    "There’s far too much unthinking respect given to authority,” Molly Ivins explained; “What you need is sustained outrage.”
    Kerr, Keirstead, McDonald, Stice and Jun Yan courageously work on ESCR to Cure SCI.

    Divisiveness comes from not following Christopher Reeve's ESCR lead.
    Young does ASCR.
    [I]I do not tear down CRPA, I ONLY make peopl

  2. #22
    Senior Member Scorpion's Avatar
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    I don't know all the details here, but Faye, you seem to be hurting your cause with accusations like these, to say nothing of the flippant tone of your posts. And before you label me, I'm not one of those "Wise Young is a god" CCers you and BigBob decry. I don't like those kind of CCers either.

    ESCR is important, but we don't know yet exactly how ESCR will help SCI, if at all so focusing on ESCR at the exclusion of anything else seems dangerous to me. I also think it's dangerous to not question things; I just think there's a difference between questioning and throwing out accusations because you don't think enough money is going to ESCR. I understand that you feel like the NJ bill was misrepresented, but looking at the evidence, I don't see that being the case. And you've provided no evidence to support your claims, only accusations.

    I am weary of people posting on CC about SCI research who seem to be more interesting in patting themselves on the back and stabbing others in the back at the same time. How can any of you (Faye, Betheny, etc) garner support when you're so busy alienizing anyone who doesn't follow you 100%?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young

    All the grant applications were investigator-initiated and judged by external reviewers from outside the state (like in California). Awards of the grants were based on scientific merit. All four grants to Rutgers involved embryonic stem cells and the two from the Keck Center involved human embryonic stem cells. There were three other grants that will study human embryonic stem cells: Ihor Lemischka (Princeton), Kateri Moore (Princeton), and Michael Shen (UMDNJ/RWJ).

    Wise.
    I have always thought that our strongest argument for SCREA is that the decisions about which research should be pursed should be made by scientists based on the most promising research and not made by politicians. Our position should be to give researchers the most money possible with the fewest restrictions possible beyond universally accepted ethical guidelines. If there is a researcher who believes there is potential in research involving ASC and can convince a panel of scientific experts that his proposal has merit I don't think that a politician or any other layperson should overrule that decision. Based on everything I have read, it seems likely that an objective review of proposals for stem cell research funding on the merits will overwhelmingly choose research inolving ESC because those proposals are more likely to be viewed as having potential for success. That is how it should be. Let scientists decide what is the best way to spend research money instead of having polticians make those decisions. As someone who spends a lot of time around politicians, we don't want them making decisions about research options. Once we go down the road of saying politicians should be picking winners and losers among research options the prospects for a cure will take a back seat to political considerations.

  4. #24
    Banned Faye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    Few scientists in New Jersey are working on human embryonic stem cells. That is why a course on human ESC is necessary and why the Keck Center is offering such a course. I am not sure about others but we currently have or are trying to acquire the best available human embryonic stem cell lines. They include the Wisconsin lines, the Harvard lines, the Technion lines from Israel, and the "Presidential" lines.
    None of the ESCR bill funding can go to hESC if they are not even available at Rutgers. Which likely means mouse ESC cells are used for the culture training in the 5 day Cohen course for $300,000.

    All the grant applications were investigator-initiated and judged by external reviewers from outside the state (like in California). Awards of the grants were based on scientific merit. All four grants to Rutgers involved embryonic stem cells and the two from the Keck Center involved human embryonic stem cells.
    Cohen: My laboratory is primarily concerned with understanding the mechanisms that govern the transition of a multipotent stem cell into a differentiated cell.
    http://cord.rutgers.edu/stemcellcourse/Cohenmain.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    There were three other grants that will study human embryonic stem cells: Ihor Lemischka (Princeton), Kateri Moore (Princeton), and Michael Shen (UMDNJ/RWJ).

    Wise.
    Kateri Moore is a doctor in veterinary medicine:
    Kateri Moore DVM Princeton University $299,970
    Interactive Mechanisms of Stem Cells and Microenvironments
    To further understand the mechanisms of stem cell self-renewal and commitment toward the purpose of developing new therapies or advancing existing therapies for use in drug development and for gene and cell therapy for immunological and other diseases......Although much discussion has been devoted to embryonic stem (ES) cells, it is not clear when sufficient knowledge will be available for their clinical application. In contrast, adult somatic stem cells, such as hematopoietic stem cells (HSCs) already have a proven track record in a wide variety of clinical applications.

    No hESCR described here!

    Ihor Lemischka Ph.D Princeton University $300,000
    Genome-Wide Functional Analysis of ES Cell fate Regulation
    To understand human embryonic stem cell decisions such as survival/death, renewal/determination and to understand how to maintain or induce specific cell fate with the goal of applying this knowledge to patient therapies.

    Possibly a singletary hESCR study

    Michael Shen Ph.D UMDNJ-RWJMS $300,000
    Our preliminary studies have potentially resolved this issue by demonstrating that there is considerable genetic redundancy between components of the Nodal pathway at early stages of mouse embryogenesis, including between Nodal itself and the TGFb ligand GDF3. Based on our preliminary findings, we therefore hypothesize that the Nodal pathway performs overlapping functions in regulating the fate of pluripotent cells during peri-implantation development in vivo as well as in ES cells in culture.

    Looks like mouse ESC work....

    "There’s far too much unthinking respect given to authority,” Molly Ivins explained; “What you need is sustained outrage.”
    Kerr, Keirstead, McDonald, Stice and Jun Yan courageously work on ESCR to Cure SCI.

    Divisiveness comes from not following Christopher Reeve's ESCR lead.
    Young does ASCR.
    [I]I do not tear down CRPA, I ONLY make peopl

  5. #25
    Banned Faye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubsfandc
    Based on everything I have read, it seems likely that an objective review of proposals for stem cell research funding on the merits will overwhelmingly choose research inolving ESC because those proposals are more likely to be viewed as having potential for success. That is how it should be.
    For once, I completely agree with you.

    However that's not what's happening in NJ.

    And the justification given by the Commission on Science and Technology of NJ is that "adult stem cells are the fastest way to the cure".

    Sounds pretty familiar to me on CC.

    "There’s far too much unthinking respect given to authority,” Molly Ivins explained; “What you need is sustained outrage.”
    Kerr, Keirstead, McDonald, Stice and Jun Yan courageously work on ESCR to Cure SCI.

    Divisiveness comes from not following Christopher Reeve's ESCR lead.
    Young does ASCR.
    [I]I do not tear down CRPA, I ONLY make peopl

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    • Faye claims that the New Jersey stem cell legislation was for embryonic stem cells only.-
    Wise.
    I NEVER said that. Though it is considered an ESCR bill just like the prop 71 bill, it's intent was to fund primarily ESCR which is neglected by NIH.
    Yes you did Faye:

    Dan, I think the facts are quite clear: the bill was supposed to be ALL about ESCR to begin with. That is what made people be so excited about it.
    You put "all" in upper case letters. You said that to deliberately mislead people and now you're back tracking.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Faye
    None of the ESCR bill funding can go to hESC if they are not even available at Rutgers. Which likely means mouse ESC cells are used for the culture training in the 5 day Cohen course for $300,000.

    Cohen: My laboratory is primarily concerned with understanding the mechanisms that govern the transition of a multipotent stem cell into a differentiated cell.
    http://cord.rutgers.edu/stemcellcourse/Cohenmain.html


    Kateri Moore is a doctor in veterinary medicine:
    Kateri Moore DVM Princeton University $299,970
    Interactive Mechanisms of Stem Cells and Microenvironments
    To further understand the mechanisms of stem cell self-renewal and commitment toward the purpose of developing new therapies or advancing existing therapies for use in drug development and for gene and cell therapy for immunological and other diseases......Although much discussion has been devoted to embryonic stem (ES) cells, it is not clear when sufficient knowledge will be available for their clinical application. In contrast, adult somatic stem cells, such as hematopoietic stem cells (HSCs) already have a proven track record in a wide variety of clinical applications.

    No hESCR described here!

    Ihor Lemischka Ph.D Princeton University $300,000
    Genome-Wide Functional Analysis of ES Cell fate Regulation
    To understand human embryonic stem cell decisions such as survival/death, renewal/determination and to understand how to maintain or induce specific cell fate with the goal of applying this knowledge to patient therapies.

    Possibly a singletary hESCR study

    Michael Shen Ph.D UMDNJ-RWJMS $300,000
    Our preliminary studies have potentially resolved this issue by demonstrating that there is considerable genetic redundancy between components of the Nodal pathway at early stages of mouse embryogenesis, including between Nodal itself and the TGFb ligand GDF3. Based on our preliminary findings, we therefore hypothesize that the Nodal pathway performs overlapping functions in regulating the fate of pluripotent cells during peri-implantation development in vivo as well as in ES cells in culture.

    Looks like mouse ESC work....
    And your judgement as to whether these research projects are meritorious is better than an independent board of scientists because?

    Here's the explanation of the process of how grants are awarded.

    http://www.state.nj.us/scitech/stemc...nts/index.html

    Grant Award Process


    All proposals will be subjected to both a scientific and ethical review.
    The independent, scientific review is handled by a panel of the American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS), a nonprofit scientific association dedicated to “advancing biological research and education for the welfare of society.” The AIBS research panel uses nationally recognized criteria to assign each proposal a scientific merit score reflecting the overall impact of the project on the field, how innovative the project is and the competence of the research plan.

    A thorough ethics review is also conducted, led by Dr. Harold Shapiro, chairman of the state Ethics Advisory Panel for stem cell research, President Emeritus of Princeton University and past chairman of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission for President Clinton. The Ethics panel is guided by the National Academy of Science’s 2005 Guidelines for Stem Cell Research and the New Jersey Human Stem Cell Research Act

    Grant Decisions – June 2007 – at an open public meeting
    In order to meet the goals of both patient treatment and economic development, the NJCST will fund proposals that demonstrate a means for translation to patient treatment and that created a foundation and capacity in New Jersey for a vibrant stem cell research/biotech/patient treatment community.
    What is wrong with allowing all proposals regarding stem cell research to compete and letting those with the most merit and potential for translation for patient treatment win? That's what matters -- what's most likely to produce success -- not a political agenda favoring one type of research over another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faye
    For once, I completely agree with you.

    However that's not what's happening in NJ.

    And the justification given by the Commission on Science and Technology of NJ is that "adult stem cells are the fastest way to the cure".

    Sounds pretty familiar to me on CC.
    I didn't see anything close to that in the guideliines for awarding grants. If the American Institute of Biological Services sciences said that, then you're problem is with them. Are you accusing them of a political bias or do you believe your scientific judgement is better than theirs?
    Last edited by cubsfandc; 03-06-2007 at 10:44 PM.

  8. #28
    Banned Faye's Avatar
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    Seneca, baby, "all about" refers to the hype being "all about" ESCR.

    NOT a Bait and Switch job which we are getting out of this one!!

    I'm sure that's NOT what Christopher Reeve expected!!

    http://www.thisisms.com/article30.html

    Flanked by patients suffering from neurological diseases and spinal cord injuries, Gov. James E. McGreevey signed legislation yesterday making New Jersey the second state in the nation to promote stem cell research.
    Christopher Reeve, who was paralyzed in 1995 during a horseback riding accident, called the new law "the proudest day" for his home state. He said stem cell research has shown the potential to lead to cures for diseases like diabetes, cancer, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.
    Click "Read More" below for the full article...
    Advertisement

    Full Article Text
    Jersey allows stem cell use in research
    McGreevey says law encourages creation of lifesaving medicine
    Monday, January 05, 203
    BY MATTHEW J. DOWLING Star-Ledger Staff

    Flanked by patients suffering from neurological diseases and spinal cord injuries, Gov. James E. McGreevey signed legislation yesterday making New Jersey the second state in the nation to promote stem cell research.
    Christopher Reeve, who was paralyzed in 1995 during a horseback riding accident, called the new law "the proudest day" for his home state. He said stem cell research has shown the potential to lead to cures for diseases like diabetes, cancer, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.

    "It opens one of the most promising lines of inquiry that research medicine has ever developed," Reeve told a crowd that overflowed the conference hall at the Kessler Institute for Rehabilitation in West Orange, where he underwent physical therapy. "Embryonic stem cells have the ability to become any tissue or cell type in the human body. The potential is absolutely unlimited."

    Reeve, who grew up in Princeton, had lobbied McGreevey and state legislators to permit the research, particularly experiments with embryonic stem cells. Anti-abortion activists oppose the research as "irresponsible" and "sinister," arguing it could lead to human cloning. New Jersey's Catholic bishops joined the opposition.

    "This law will result in a grisly human experimentation and organ harvesting," said Marie Tasy, director of public and legislative affairs for New Jersey Right to Life. "It is truly a dark day for New Jersey. They actually opened the door to human cloning."

    McGreevey said the legislation he signed specifically bans human cloning and makes it a crime punishable by up to 20 years in jail.
    "This legislation is about providing lifesaving medicine," McGreevey said. "We can bring hope to thousands of citizens all across the state of New Jersey. Today, we celebrate the possible."

    Reeve said stem cell research could lead to significant medical advances in the next two to five years that would silence critics.
    "Whenever something truly great is accomplished, its birth is always attended by controversy and antagonism and naysayers," Reeve said. "And then, years later, we look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. This kind of scientific inquiry should not be stopped."

    McGreevey said New Jersey's connections to the pharmaceutical and biotechnology industries as well as the state's universities and medical schools make for an ideal environment for stem cell research.
    "It will serve as a magnet to bring the scientists and the greatest minds into New Jersey to have the innovations take place here," said state Health and Senior Services Commissioner Clifton Lacy. "New Jersey will be at that forefront of scientific advancement for our country."

    Reeve said New Jersey's leadership has already prompted other states to step up efforts to approve similar legislation. He said a vote has been scheduled in the Illinois Legislature later this month, and New York and Massachusetts are also addressing stem cell research.

    The legislation passed the state Assembly last month by a single vote after a tense 45-minute debate. Assemblyman Rafael Fraguela (D-Hudson) was kicked out of the Republican Assembly caucus after he broke ranks to provide the deciding vote in favor of the bill.

    "This legislative gift is for those who want their suffering to end," said Assemblyman Neil Cohen (D-Union). "Let New Jersey gather the most accomplished scientific and research minds of the 21st century and embark upon an historic pathway to cures."

    Despite the strong opposition during the Assembly vote, the bill signing yesterday at Kessler was without protesters. Dozens of paralysis victims and those who suffer from neurological disorders were joined by their families in Kessler's conference hall to watch McGreevey sign the bill.

    Afterward, many of the patients posed for pictures with McGreevey and Reeve, including Watchung Hills Regional High School senior Carl Riccio, who was paralyzed in a wrestling accident in February. Riccio, 17, said he believes stem cell research holds the potential for him to walk again.
    "It gives us hope for a cure in New Jersey instead of looking to other countries that are way ahead of us," Riccio said. "Hopefully, we can catch up and speed up the research."

    "There’s far too much unthinking respect given to authority,” Molly Ivins explained; “What you need is sustained outrage.”
    Kerr, Keirstead, McDonald, Stice and Jun Yan courageously work on ESCR to Cure SCI.

    Divisiveness comes from not following Christopher Reeve's ESCR lead.
    Young does ASCR.
    [I]I do not tear down CRPA, I ONLY make peopl

  9. #29
    Banned Faye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubsfandc
    And your judgement as to whether these research projects are meritorious is better than an independent board of scientists because?
    That is soooooooooo not the issue.

    Research which is currently NOT funded by NIH should have priority just like with CIRM.

    It's extremely odd to fund so much of what NIH already funds, when those patients who fought for the bill expected ESCR to be funded primarily.

    "There’s far too much unthinking respect given to authority,” Molly Ivins explained; “What you need is sustained outrage.”
    Kerr, Keirstead, McDonald, Stice and Jun Yan courageously work on ESCR to Cure SCI.

    Divisiveness comes from not following Christopher Reeve's ESCR lead.
    Young does ASCR.
    [I]I do not tear down CRPA, I ONLY make peopl

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Faye
    For once, I completely agree with you.

    However that's not what's happening in NJ.
    The awards granted to the NJ researchers were investigator-initiated and judged by external reviewers from outside the state (like in California) Faye.

    Wise doesn't determine who's awarded grant money. If you don't like who the money went to, take your complaint to the external reviewers.

    Attacking Wise over it pointless.


    And the justification given by the Commission on Science and Technology of NJ is that "adult stem cells are the fastest way to the cure".

    Sounds pretty familiar to me on CC.
    I've never heard Dr. Young say that Faye. Please provide a link or admit that you're again making misleading statements.

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