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Thread: Mutilation of daughter as disability treatment

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaMemChose
    Were the leg braces I wore as a child barbaric? These would not be utilized today, but they were when I was a child.
    .....
    What about the tendon transfers? I turned 9 in the hospital when I had my first such surgery on my hand, wrist and arm, back in the dark ages of these operations. It didn't take, didn't work. Was this wrong? Barbaric? Evil? Should've left well enough alone?

    I'm not these parents, not in their home, not the parent of a child with the cognitive abilities of a three month old.

    I cannot say what I'd do were I them. I do believe they should be left alone to love, care for their daughter.
    I have avoided posting in this arguement, but I felt the need to add to this post. I agree completely with LaMem here. We already do make decisions for our children, that we believe are in their best interests, not "medically necessary" but to make their lives easier or better. I believe the mitranoff procedure was developed for children specifically. That is major surgery, yet we don't question parents who chose it for their children.

    I am just glad that I have never been in the position of this family.
    T7-8 since Feb 2005

  2. #82
    I think I am more in alignment with the parents decision.

    Next case.

  3. #83
    People can disagree about the procedures, and their medical "necessity", but the issues are not about any medical procedures being unnecessary or considered as "mutilation". If there is medical harm and dysfunction, among other adverse effects of a condition, and a procedure can aid in improving function, independence and over-all long term benefits to the individual, then the pros/cons and risks are weighed.

    A mitrofanoff, braces, and tendon transfers for example, are primarily to aide in the function of the individual, with hopes of long-term benefits from the added function the procedures/tools may result. No procedure is guaranteed, so a failed individual effort or poor result are not good examples IF data shows otherwise. Individual results will vary, but procedures which have poor outcomes are generally not used. Some may not have enough data, especially if new and relatively experimental, but mitro and tendon transfers are beyond the experimental stages (tho more outcome studies may be necessary). This is really not relevant, as those procedures have shown to help improve the health and functional benefits FOR THE INDIVIDUALS, as well as minimize the need for caregiver aid - not increase dysfunction, create greater dependence and overall need. A mitrofanoff was primarily used in children, but the benefits shown have increased it';s application on a growing number of adults. This procedure is not simply to aid in the work of caregivers, but rather to improve functional benefits to the individual who receives it and to decrease adverse effects of long-term catheter use - from infections to cancer. Even braces, which in the past may have been painful, created discomfort and dependence, was in part to help aid in the physical improvement and function FOR THE INDIVIDUAL. Development of better technology and materials, including the knowledge base in physiology, body mechanics and engineering, etc. have helped to improve the types of braces used today, and help to improve function and minimize pain for the individuals affected.

    Using antiquated science and tools as comparison doesn't work. Bringing in issue of foster children abuse is a non sequitur. Actually, if people were so concerned about the abuse and welfare of children, one should think a bit more about why children are placed in foster care and who the perpetrators of abuse against children primarily are. Strange to talk about non-intervention in personal family affairs in this case, but attempt to divert attention to the need for greater intervention in the personal/family lives of others. However, all this is moot.

    People can make all the assumptions they want about the reasons for what's going on in this individual case. People might be better served to take the family's own words. If taken as fact - Per the family website, the Statement from the family is as follows:
    Ashley’s biggest challenges are discomfort and boredom; all other considerations in this discussion take a back seat to these central challenges. The “Ashley Treatment” goes right to the heart of these challenges and we strongly believe that it will mitigate them in a significant way and provide Ashley with lifelong benefits.

    Unlike what most people thought, the decision to pursue the “Ashley Treatment” was not a difficult one.
    Whether one believes this individual case has broader social implications or not, the fact that the public is discussing in, including in this forum, indicates interest, even if for mere sensational folly. Public engagement by the family, thru interviews and website, etc. are also an integral part of this. At the very least, these things in itself have made it a social affair.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick
    Using antiquated science and tools as comparison doesn't work. Bringing in issue of foster children abuse is a non sequitur. Actually, if people were so concerned about the abuse and welfare of children, one should think a bit more about why children are placed in foster care and who the perpetrators of abuse against children primarily are. Strange to talk about non-intervention in personal family affairs in this case, but attempt to divert attention to the need for greater intervention in the personal/family lives of others. However, all this is moot.
    I was only making a statement that their are more important issues to worry about rather than faulting and attempting to lynch the parents for their decision.

    The child has a loving home and the poster is trying to make it seem as though they "mutilated" her.

    Might I suggest this book??? http://www.amazon.com/Grammatically-...e=UTF8&s=books
    Last edited by darkeyed_daisy; 01-12-2007 at 11:50 PM.
    T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

    My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by sjean423

    I am just glad that I have never been in the position of this family.
    Amennn, my sistah. That is largely why I am so reluctant to judge them. I feel that they are the ones that know what works best for them, their family and Ashley. They seem to have their hearts in the right place, so more power to them and may the Force be with them.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Scorpion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkeyed_daisy
    I was only making a statement that their are more important issues to worry about rather than faulting and attempting to lynch the parents for their decision . . . Might I suggest this book??? http://www.amazon.com/Grammatically-...e=UTF8&s=books
    Might I suggest you read the book yourself or just stop being a grammar-nazi? Chick used "it's" instead of "its" which could easily be a typo just as I'll assume your use of "their" instead of "there" was a typo. Big deal. It's a sad indicator that you can't successfully argue the points someone makes when you instead attack grammar. These are informal message boards are not Doctoral dissertations, you know.

    * * *

    RE: This thread - I personally don't know what's more fucked up, that Ashley's parents rationalize their medical "procedures" by erroneously saying they will alleviate Ashley's discomfort and boredom, or the ease of which so many of you people posting support their decisions. Disguisting.

    But I don't think I can add more than what has already been so well pointed out by Antiquity, Lynnifer and ::gasp:: chick (or find the energy or desire to try), so I'll shut the fuck up now.
    Last edited by Scorpion; 01-13-2007 at 12:23 AM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion
    Might I suggest you read the book yourself or just stop being a grammar-nazi? Chick used "it's" instead of "its" which could easily be a typo just as I'll assume your use of "their" instead of "there" was a typo. Big deal. It's a sad indicator that you can't successfully argue the points someone makes when you instead attack grammar. These are informal message boards are not Doctoral dissertations, you know.
    Well scorpo she could have left my thoughts alone but yet chose to attempt to attack my mention of foster care..... I am not interested in grammar but if you gonna use big words/adjectives/adverbs you need to know how!!!!
    T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

    My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown

  8. #88
    Senior Member Scorpion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkeyed_daisy
    I am not interested in grammar but if you gonna use big words/adjectives/adverbs you need to know how!!!!
    Funny, she does know how. If you're going to be a grammar-nazi, at least make sure your own grammer is flawless. It's hilarious to me that the only people here on CC who incessantly whine about chick using "big words" are those who don't agree with her posts or who feel personally attacked by her. Big babies.
    Last edited by Scorpion; 01-13-2007 at 12:22 AM.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion
    Funny, she does know how. If you're going to be a grammar-nazi, at least make sure your own grammer is flawless. It's hilarious to me that the only people here on CC who incessantly whine about chick using "big words" are those who don't agree with her posts or who feel personally attacked by her. Big babies.

    T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

    My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkeyed_daisy
    Ah, the intelligent retort I expected.

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