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Thread: Mutilation of daughter as disability treatment

  1. #71
    I hadn't gotten the impression they were trying to keep her "cute". As I said in my first post, that would be appalling.

  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by teesieme
    "There are many inconsistencies, as pointed out by Lynnifer, which raises many questions. However, I question - what makes some disabled persons worthy of potential and hope, and others not? what makes some valued enough to have some (future/potential) cure applicable, yet others less so and preservation not encouraged?"

    agree- wholeheartedly.
    I agree as well. In my opinion it's dangerous for us to ascribe to the notion that basic humans rights are an AB privilege that does not extend to the non-communicative and developmentally disabled. The right to ones body and the preservation of ones organs is not dependent upon cognitive function and physical ability. It wasn't long ago that all of society believed this about all forms of disability, from the minor to the severe. These attitudes are why we were subjected to forced sterilizations and institutionalized against our wills. Not only were we denied human rights, we were viewed as less than, as different and therefore less human. We had no input in how we were treated and had no control over our bodies. People could and often did whatever they wanted to us whenever they wanted, with impunity. It's this view and treatment of the disabled that the disability rights pioneers fought so hard to eliminate. For some of us to ascribe to this same view of disability, the ableist hierarchy that bases worth and rights on physical and cognitive ability, is disturbing to me. Basic human rights are not a privilege reserved only for AB's. We may not think that the severely disabled are like us or that we are like "them" but society doesn't make those distinctions. A person in a wheelchair is not seen as any more valuable or productive to society than a person with downs syndrome or a person without a brain. As uncomfortable as it may make us feel, the fact is that we're all lumped together. ALL forms of disability are stigmatized. An AB caregiver with a similar mindset would see nothing wrong with the idea of removing an SCI's legs to make them easier to lift. We'd be horrified by it but the caregiver wouldn't blink an eye. We can't condone the mutilation of Ashley for the sake of convenience but react with horror if one of our caregivers suggested something similar for us. We think we're exempt because we're verbal and cognitive and "different" from "them" but the reality is that society won't think so. We're indirectly supporting the view that it's ok, once again, for the medical establishment to subject disabled people to unnecessary and invasive treatments and procedures simply because they're disabled. Unnecessary treatments and procedures that an AB would NEVER be subjected to.
    Last edited by antiquity; 01-12-2007 at 01:38 AM.

  3. #73
    But what if she gets too big for them to care for her at home?

    I called my cousin, she said that was what happened to Rachel. If she had reached adulthood she was projected to be 5'10". Rachel never reached puberty but another girl at the home was terrified by the blood from her period, every single month. Sue said PMS was wicked with that girl too.

    I think the call has to be made case-by-case. It seems as wrong to say "No, this family can't do this, because of ancient history and ancient advocates and ancient ways of thought in the dark ages" as it is to say "If they're mentally challenged cut off all their legs".

    Should Ashley be required to live in an institutional setting because society, or antiquity, didn't want to deprive me of the right to possess the parts I was born with?

    I would rather have the right to live with my family than the right to possess a uterus that serves me no purpose, is a hassle and possibly painful. That's just me but I really believe that is what I would want.

  4. #74
    No one is this day and age NEEDS to menstruate. There are multiple ways to stop menstruation without removing her uterus and ovaries. Since she is totally dependent upon the care she receives - there would not be an issue with noncompliance.

    If she has the awareness of a three month old (which I question) why would she have any fear of blood?

    Hormone treatment could have been utilized for Ashley to keep her height on the shorter side of normal without it becoming something that creates a minefield of other potential problems.

    She is going to be 13 inches shorter than her anticipated heighth - where are the organs that were going to grow in this adult sized body going to grow in this child sized body?

    These folks can afford expensive surgeries, surely they can afford a hoyer lift?

    Perhaps euthanizing people with disabilities who grow to be to inconveniently tall should be considered a compassionate choice?

    The horone treatment she received is going to have no impact on keepingher weight low. What are they going to do to stop her from being the weight of a 5'10 inch adult? Isn't weight a greater consideration than height? What are other surgeries are ahead for Ashley to keep her small and manageable?

    At what point is it crossing the line? I think it is long been passed.

    The words of Pastor Martin Niemoller come to mind when reading this thread...

    First they came for the Jews

    and I did not speak out

    because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for the Communists

    and I did not speak out

    because I was not a Communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists

    and I did not speak out

    because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for me

    and there was no one left

    to speak out for me.

  5. #75
    Were the leg braces I wore as a child barbaric? These would not be utilized today, but they were when I was a child.

    As an adult I've heard the story of a neighbor who made a comment about what was done to legs and feet through "corrective" shoes and leg braces. "She's not going to run anyway."

    What about the tendon transfers? I turned 9 in the hospital when I had my first such surgery on my hand, wrist and arm, back in the dark ages of these operations. It didn't take, didn't work. Was this wrong? Barbaric? Evil? Should've left well enough alone?

    I'm not these parents, not in their home, not the parent of a child with the cognitive abilities of a three month old.

    I cannot say what I'd do were I them. I do believe they should be left alone to love, care for their daughter.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDnemesis
    No one is this day and age NEEDS to menstruate. There are multiple ways to stop menstruation without removing her uterus and ovaries. Since she is totally dependent upon the care she receives - there would not be an issue with noncompliance.

    If she has the awareness of a three month old (which I question) why would she have any fear of blood?

    Hormone treatment could have been utilized for Ashley to keep her height on the shorter side of normal without it becoming something that creates a minefield of other potential problems.

    She is going to be 13 inches shorter than her anticipated heighth - where are the organs that were going to grow in this adult sized body going to grow in this child sized body?

    These folks can afford expensive surgeries, surely they can afford a hoyer lift?

    Perhaps euthanizing people with disabilities who grow to be to inconveniently tall should be considered a compassionate choice?

    The horone treatment she received is going to have no impact on keepingher weight low. What are they going to do to stop her from being the weight of a 5'10 inch adult? Isn't weight a greater consideration than height? What are other surgeries are ahead for Ashley to keep her small and manageable?

    At what point is it crossing the line? I think it is long been passed.

    Who are you to dictate what treatment was the best for Ashley? Do you know her? Have you spent days with her to know what she enjoys and what she doesnt? Long term Birth Control can cause blood clots and especially in someone who is bed bound and not active.

    Who are you/Antiquity or anyone else who is faulting these parents to say what was best for someone you dont even know?

    This was not a hasty decision. Alot of circumstancses were considered-pros and cons-before surgeons agreed to do the surgery. All circumstances were considered and this was what was decided to be best in the eyes of the parents, the people who know her best.

    We are not talking about a federal mandated treatment for disabled people. We are talking about one individual circumstance to better the life of a young girl.

    Who are any of us to judge them? Just because you have an agenda or a platform that needs thumping does not give you the right to look into someones circumstances and tell them what is best for someone/situation you have no knowledge of. I have made decisions in life that other people have not always agreed with but that does not give anyone the right to come in, impose their views and decide what is best for me or my family without knowing me.

    Ethical standards were considered in this circumstance or the doctors would not have proceeded with this surgery.

    There are children in foster care being abused every day. But yet we waste time trying to berate and fault a loving couple who are doing what they think is best.
    T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

    My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown

  7. #77
    I wonder if organs are like goldfish, only growing as large as their container allows?

    Keeping Ashley's weight down shouldn't be an issue, she's tube-fed and doesn't eat for pleasure.

  8. #78
    Ashley is being given massive doses of hormones which she has to take because her uterus was removed. So she is at risk for increased blot clots and all the other complications that come with taking HRT.

  9. #79
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    The only reason she would need hormones is if her ovaries were removed. The uterus does not secrete hormones. It is only need to procreate. The ovaries secrete hormones.
    T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

    My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown

  10. #80
    Her ovaries were removed. She did not have a partial hysterectomy.

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