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Thread: Mutilation of daughter as disability treatment

  1. #651
    Moderator Obieone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obieone
    I assume and presume nothing ...... and work hard to be a good person ... I think most of us do try to do that ...... don't they ????
    I think I just contradicted myself ..... .... gosh I just can't win .... peace everyone!

    Obieone
    ~ Be the change you wish to see in the world ~ Mahatma Gandi


    " calling all Angels ...... calling all Angels ....walk me through this one .. don't leave me alone .... calling all Angels .... calling all Angels .... we're tryin' and we're hopin' cause we're not sure how ....... this .... goes ..."
    Jane Siberry

  2. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by orangejello
    wrote a response but realized it is not worth it
    It was worth it. I read it before you deleted it.

    Have the courage of your own beliefs. It's the internet - if you can't do it here you've no chance in real life. I rarely care if someone rips me to shreds here or in the real world - can't be worse than breaking my neck can it?

    You're eloquent enough to make your point - Ozy answered mine, I still respect him and, I would hope, he respects me.

    I rarely get involved in the politics forum because arguing with DA, Finkel and the GWB henchmen is like engaging a child who puts their hands over their ears and goes 'Lalalala' when you make a point.

    There's been a degree of intelligent, if heated, debate in this thread. You contributed. Why retract it?
    C5/6 incomplete

    "I assume you all have guns and crack....."

  3. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by catlady

    My Boston fern responds to music.
    And you continue to water it............
    C5/6 incomplete

    "I assume you all have guns and crack....."

  4. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by RehabRhino
    Have the courage of your own beliefs. It's the internet - if you can't do it here you've no chance in real life. I rarely care if someone rips me to shreds here or in the real world - can't be worse than breaking my neck can it?
    You had perfect timing because it was deleted almost as soon as I posted it

    You are, of course, right. Both that I should have left it up and that there is no value in worrying what others think or say.

    I guess I feared that what I said would be taken wrong by some and flamed. I agree the debate is still semi-civil now, but thread implosion is always a very real threat. I just didn't want to set off something if somebody misread what I wrote. Not that I am giving myself the credit for having the ability to start a thread war. But as you know, it does not take much to set things off. Also indecisiveness seems to be one of my fortes.

    I don't have the text anymore so I can't restore what was written. But the crux of my post was that judging from the outside whether a person's life is worthwhile or not is a very dangerous, and I would argue irresponsible, thing. It is true that not all disabilities are equal--but once you create a hierarcy and decide that one person's life has no value because of their specific severe disability, what is to stop it there? Who decides what is an "acceptable life?" And how do they decide that? Is a high quad who is on a ventilator and feeding tube but still has all their mental faculties really all that different from somebody like Ashley? Neither has what many others would consider an acceptable life. I am sure there are plenty of able bodied people who would consider being a low para as an unacceptable life. I am being purposely factious here but as has been mentioned several times already, it is a very slippery slope once you go there. I would question how one can judge the value of another's life without being intimately aware of their full personal and family circumstances.

    (thanks rhino)

  5. #655
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangejello
    You had perfect timing because it was deleted almost as soon as I posted it

    You are, of course, right. Both that I should have left it up and that there is no value in worrying what others think or say.

    I guess I feared that what I said would be taken wrong by some and flamed. I agree the debate is still semi-civil now, but thread implosion is always a very real threat. I just didn't want to set off something if somebody misread what I wrote. Not that I am giving myself the credit for having the ability to start a thread war. But as you know, it does not take much to set things off. Also indecisiveness seems to be one of my fortes.

    I don't have the text anymore so I can't restore what was written. But the crux of my post was that judging from the outside whether a person's life is worthwhile or not is a very dangerous, and I would argue irresponsible, thing. It is true that not all disabilities are equal--but once you create a hierarcy and decide that one person's life has no value because of their specific severe disability, what is to stop it there? Who decides what is an "acceptable life?" And how do they decide that? Is a high quad who is on a ventilator and feeding tube but still has all their mental faculties really all that different from somebody like Ashley? Neither has what many others would consider an acceptable life. I am sure there are plenty of able bodied people who would consider being a low para as an unacceptable life. I am being purposely factious here but as has been mentioned several times already, it is a very slippery slope once you go there. I would question how one can judge the value of another's life without being intimately aware of their full personal and family circumstances.

    (thanks rhino)
    buddy if someone has a problem with what you said, you can just wipe your ass with them and leave it at that. piss on 'em, they're nothing. there's nothing wrong in what you wrote in this case and in the case that you deleted (i got to see it)

    you're being civil and respectful and that's just what this place needs. there are a lot of people who need to be mindful of how immature and how detrimental they are to themselves, not to mention that it bleeds onto others. you're a perfect example of that. it's to the point here that people are afraid to post something that's actually worth reading and had a lot of forethought and feelings put into it.

    i have to say it's about time and a wonderful change in this site.

    civility, o how we missed you!

    respect, o how we missed you!

    let's hope you never leave us again!
    Never take life seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway

    Frank's blog:
    http://www.franktalk-scurry.blogspot.com
    My regular blog:
    http://www.ithinkithinktoomuchblog.blogspot.com

  6. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by orangejello
    You had perfect timing because it was deleted almost as soon as I posted it

    You are, of course, right. Both that I should have left it up and that there is no value in worrying what others think or say. ...
    I caught it, too, and it was, as always, very reasonable.
    Yes, generating a hierarchy is problematical. Where would you draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable lives? Between those for whom life is worth preserving and those for whom it is not? Under what conditions should an individual be allowed to take their own life? These are extremely difficult, closely related questions. I think they are also highly individual questions - is the line drawn in the same place for everyone? It is if the answer is legislated. And if that must be, it seems to me that the law should draw a line that is over to the side a ways, enough to allow some variation for the individual case.
    - Richard

  7. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by orangejello
    You had perfect timing because it was deleted almost as soon as I posted it

    You are, of course, right. Both that I should have left it up and that there is no value in worrying what others think or say.

    I guess I feared that what I said would be taken wrong by some and flamed. I agree the debate is still semi-civil now, but thread implosion is always a very real threat. I just didn't want to set off something if somebody misread what I wrote. Not that I am giving myself the credit for having the ability to start a thread war. But as you know, it does not take much to set things off. Also indecisiveness seems to be one of my fortes.

    I don't have the text anymore so I can't restore what was written. But the crux of my post was that judging from the outside whether a person's life is worthwhile or not is a very dangerous, and I would argue irresponsible, thing. It is true that not all disabilities are equal--but once you create a hierarcy and decide that one person's life has no value because of their specific severe disability, what is to stop it there? Who decides what is an "acceptable life?" And how do they decide that? Is a high quad who is on a ventilator and feeding tube but still has all their mental faculties really all that different from somebody like Ashley? Neither has what many others would consider an acceptable life. I am sure there are plenty of able bodied people who would consider being a low para as an unacceptable life. I am being purposely factious here but as has been mentioned several times already, it is a very slippery slope once you go there. I would question how one can judge the value of another's life without being intimately aware of their full personal and family circumstances.

    (thanks rhino)
    Arg, and I was going to quote your last 2 lines but decided against it. You summed it up well here. Please don't delete your comments in the future. They're generally eloquent, thoughtful and refreshing.

  8. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by cali
    buddy if someone has a problem with what you said, you can just wipe your ass with them and leave it at that. piss on 'em, they're nothing. there's nothing wrong in what you wrote in this case and in the case that you deleted (i got to see it)
    You do have a way with words Cali. I am with the people in the bat thread--business is good but I think writing is "where it's at" for you

    I guess I did not delete that first post as fast as I thought since at least four people managed to read it

    thanks rhino, cali, rbdorf, and antiquity for your "reassurances" about my posts. I will try to resist future urges to post then delete
    Last edited by orangejello; 04-23-2007 at 12:48 PM.

  9. #659
    O.J., doin that deleto post thang again?

    You're just testin how quick people's reflexes are, aren'tcha? Or, maybe this is a clever way to see who is stalking your posts!

  10. #660
    Quote Originally Posted by chick
    O.J., doin that deleto post thang again?

    You're just testin how quick people's reflexes are, aren'tcha? Or, maybe this is a clever way to see who is stalking your posts!
    Yes I was on a full blown "post and delete" rampage

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