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Thread: Mutilation of daughter as disability treatment

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by antiquity
    I wasn't making an inference but you certainly were by assuming that I possess advanced knowledge of her thoughts and was seeking clarification just for the heck of it.
    So sue me for giving you the benefit of the doubt. I'm guilty of thinking you were smart enough to consider Betheny's statement IN CONTEXT. She talked about "quality of life", "joy" and specifically said that she doesn't "condone butchery of the disabled." You took one word out of an entire post and ran with it. It seemed to be a calculated move on your part. I was wrong. OK.

    Honest question. Sorry if it made you uncomfortable
    I don't see the need for an apology and nothing you've said has made me uncomfortable (an odd choice of words). Now that we've cleared all that up, let's move on.

    C.

  2. #52
    Nothing but judgment in most of the posts in this thread.

    There is nothing but judgment and imposition of one's personal experience and beliefs about what might be better/greater "quality" of life unto another human being.

    There isn't what some seem to believe is some attempt to improve QOL, by changing conditions to help make a child's life better. There is, however, an effort (and act committed) to change the child, to accommodate all those around her, including making others' lives easier. There is acknowledgment of the environment and society in general, not being easy and pretty difficult and limiting for people living with disabilities, conditions which can in ways be further 'disabling' to one without full, "normal" function.
    But, to further disable another's body to accommodate the world and ease "discomfort and boredom"? Perceived boredom. Dismember a child's body to accommodate perceived boredom?

    To talk about a child being unaware and not being conscious of "loss" (enough to morn whatever was taken away), is selfishly imposing one's own idea(l)s onto another and further, not even giving that person an opportunity for potential or experience.

    Is function and actual experience necessary or required to preserve a body?

    If a male child became SCI without ever experiencing sex, would it be ok then to remove their penis and give them a SP, since they will never mourn the loss of using their penis in a ("normal") sexual way?
    If a child became a high quad only able to move the head, with bleak prognosis of ever using any part of the body ever again (excepting a "cure"), would it be ok to amputate the legs to make life easier for the caregivers? Would it be ok to amputate any part of the body that causes pain, or rather, pre-empt possible pain, as perceived by the caregivers/legal guardians?

    People seem quick to acquiesce to making another more disabled and prevent potential (if it isn't spinal cord related?), and not make effort (in thought, even) to help make her more "whole" by demanding any change - be it environmental/social/policy, to Cure.

    There is some distinguishment being made between those disabled via SCI/D, and others living with varying disabilities, many being congenital.

    "We aren't disabled like them". "They don't know what it's like to be normal"....

    Is it any wonder that non-SCI related disabled person's and groups are not so quick to jump on the cure bandwagon?

    With the antiquated and archaic thoughts and beliefs expressed in this thread and judgments made about disabled persons (be they consciously made or not) by SCI disabled persons lacking any empathy, it is not surprising that disabled people/organizations, who've worked and fought for decades for the rights of disabled persons to live as much as possible, independent and autonomous lives, and to be given the same opportunities to live their human potential as any other person, are not as quick to jump on.

    Cure? Cure what? Whom? Why would non-SCI/D jump on board to support something so disingenuous and selfish, as what's been expressed here?

    The posts expressed here are not only disturbing, but disgusting. They are also the very type of sentiment that has kept disabled persons hidden away from society and institutionalized.

    ...for their own good.
    Last edited by chick; 01-11-2007 at 07:12 PM.

  3. #53
    Senior Member zillazangel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick
    Nothing but judgment in most of the posts in this thread.

    <snip, blah, blah, blah snip snip snip snip snip SNIP>

    The posts expressed here are not only disturbing, but disgusting. They are also the very type of sentiment that has kept disabled persons hidden away from society and institutionalized.

    ...for their own good.
    Please compare sentence one with the second the last sentence in your post. Pot? Meet kettle. Kettle? Meet pot.

  4. #54
    As expected. You missed the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by zillazangel
    Please compare sentence one with the second the last sentence in your post. Pot? Meet kettle. Kettle? Meet pot.
    I am disgusted by the opinions expressed here and will/have made judgment.

    You can continue to judge disabled persons as less worthy of potential. So be it.

    You are bothered by my judgment of that, I presume? As I am disgusted by your, and others, judgment against this disabled child and disabled persons as a whole.

    I'm cool with that.

  5. #55
    Senior Member zillazangel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick
    As expected. You missed the point.

    I am disgusted by the opinions expressed here and will/have made judgment.

    You can continue to judge disabled persons as less worthy of potential. So be it.

    You are bothered by my judgment of that, I presume? As I am disgusted by your, and others, judgment against this disabled child and disabled persons as a whole.

    I'm cool with that.
    Oh yes, I am uber cool with thinking disabled people are pathetic useless pieces of shit. Obviously.

    As expected. You missed the point.

  6. #56
    You wish and choose to make this personal zilla?

    Whatever your motivation and intention, carry on without me.

    Ta.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by chick
    Nothing but judgment in most of the posts in this thread.
    Yes, and? Why do you start your long, judgmental post with this sentence? It sounds like you disapprove of people making judgments about others (which is in itself a judgment), but then you go on to express quite a few conclusions of your own.

    Personally, I think it's silly when people claim to be "nonjudgmental" and assert that as a positive thing. So I'm not against you expressing your opinion in this fashion. I'm just wondering about the hypocrisy of condemning something while in the act of doing it.

    Oh, and out of curiousity...

    I am disgusted by your, and others, judgment against this disabled child and disabled persons as a whole.
    Is it not possible to judge people and situations on a case-by-case basis? Saying that I don't like vanilla ice cream doesn't mean that I don't like ice cream as a whole.

    C.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Racing
    Personally, I think it's silly when people claim to be "nonjudgmental" and assert that as a positive thing. So I'm not against you expressing your opinion in this fashion. I'm just wondering about the hypocrisy of condemning something while in the act of doing it. .
    My first sentence is a statement regarding the hypocrisy I see in this thread, not the mere act of making judgment.

    Where did I claim to be "nonjudgmental"? I actually claimed otherwise.

    Please take time to read my follow-up post.

  9. #59
    Senior Member zillazangel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick
    You wish and choose to make this personal zilla?

    Whatever your motivation and intention, carry on without me.

    Ta.
    Well yeah, I am making it personal. I rarely take having my opinion called "disgusting" as just making conversation. So thanks, I will clarify my thoughts on this without another retort from you (please see bold above).

  10. #60
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    Still not comfortable with what they have done to this girl. I was abhorred to read about removal of the appendix when there was only a 5% chance of it rupturing ... but I read on their site that she would be unable to communicate the pain so I understand the concern. There are contradictions though ... later on the mother writes that she appeared to have minimal discomfort after the surgeries.

    The website states that the child is 9yrs old but has bones of a 15yr old after the estrogen treatments. Would she not be prone to bone density loss (even moreso now) and pressure sores?

    The saddest part -
    "We are currently near the limits of our ability to lift Ashley at 65 pounds. Therefore, an additional 50 pounds would make all the difference in our capacity to move her. Furthermore, other than her Mom and Dad the only additional care givers entrusted to Ashley’s care are her two Grandmothers, who find Ashley’s weight even more difficult to manage. We tried hard and found it impossible to find qualified, trustworthy, and affordable care providers."

    Although, I completely agree with removal of her uterus having suffered some horrible menstrual cramps myself.

    How do you tell, for a child who can't communicate, that they're bored?

    I'm still reading the website. I'm not sure how I feel about what they did to her ... in treating everyone compassionately as a person and if Ashley could communicate with a normal brain function and personality evolvement - what would she say to her parents after this? That is what worries me ...
    Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

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