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Thread: Mutilation of daughter as disability treatment

  1. #521
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    It’s just a misunderstood care, a care that focuses more on lazy parents helped by some weird doctors. Simple as that.

  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by cspanos
    Agreed. Daisy, I am interested in your thoughts as to the benefits of the hormone therapy. Moreso, whether those benefits warranted hormone therapy.

    In all honesty, it's the thing I'm most objected too. As RehabRhino said it appears "an extreme response to the financial difficulties faced by the families of severely disabled people".

    Chris.
    Chris I do think we agree here. The hormone therapy is the thing that concerns me the most also. I can see where removing the uterus provided comfort (honestly I think women were cursed with the menses LOL) and the breasts with the family history you already addressed.

    I do understand why they did it but I dont know if I would have chosen to bombard my child with hormones with unknown side effects. I also understand how frustrating it might be to have an adult with the mind of an infant crying to be held. Ashley only knows what she has experienced this far in life. If she is used to being held in her parents lap and has become accustomed to being picked up and held like she always has been, A large body would end that kind of affection that she is used to. It might be kind of hard to convince an infant (if her mind stays in that state) why she cant be held.

    I was kind of just thinking about my own daughter as an infant and when they cry, they are either spoiled from being held or have a need that has to addressed. It would have been hard to do had she been 130 pounds and especially if Ashley is already spoiled to the point of being held a little more than usual.

    I just want Ashley to have the best quality of life whatever her cognitive level is. I read some of the journal Antiquity provided yesterday. I think the physicians really did weigh the benefits of her being held verses her growing to her normal height and weight.

    Imagine the parents had elected not to do the hormone treatment or any treatment for that matter. What if Ashley couldnt understand at a cognitive level anymore why she couldnt be picked up and held and more? Do you think she may have the ability to suffer depression from this? Depression takes a toll on the body of an able bodied person. Depression could have a negative effect on her health. I am just saying what if here but that is my point. How will we ever know one way or the other because Ashley cant tell us? I think she deserves the highest quality of life available to her. I have also never used a hoyer lift but some children are afraid of things or equipment that makes a weird noise or looks strange to them and as parents we never know why, we just know they are afraid(my uncles had to shave their beards because my daughter was extremely afraid of beards as a toddler. She called them "booger men".). I am just saying what if by making all these statements....I really want Ashley to have a good happy life.

    Im not sure it was the right decision but I can certainly understand why they chose to do it. I would never advocate for any kind of standardized type treatment on anyone. Rehab Rhino is correct as well because it does seem like an extreme response for families to have to resort to for financial reasons. Did they give this as one of their reasons? I have read so much, I cant remember. I wouldnt advocate for this kind of treatment for people who cant afford lifts and equipment, that does seem extremely weird.
    T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

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  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by cass
    therein lies the rub. opponents cite mainly only one thing: benefit to caregivers (and incidentally potential harm to Ashley). the family cites benefits to Ashley and her care. the question becomes who is in the best position to answer that?

    honestly, i don't think a bunch of advocate orgs who haven't bothered to sit down with the intimate parties involved are the most qualified in this individual case (and this is what bothered me about drake's statements). trying to ensure it never becomes standard treatment w/o intense scrutiny is, imo, definitely justifiable. but that is not what i have read the intent to be. the intent, to me, is clearly to prohibit anything like this being done again regardless of circumstances (using Ashley as a poster child). i don't find that caring about a little girl; i find that pursuing a cause and the individual cases be damned. and exploiting one little girl.

    would it have been better for everybody to have kept mum in the first place? no. the doctors wanted opinions. is this discourse useful? absolutely. for the dis advocate orgs to immediately jump on it and scream foul seems to me fanatical. not to mention crying for action w/o delving into the details of 1 little girl. i find this unprofessional. were i on the board of one of these advocacy orgs, i would have said, wait let's look into the details, talk to the parties involved. they shunned that approach from the "git go," made their own conclusions and ran with it. i don't support that approach. (need i point out many of these ppl are not dis themselves, but have many degrees after their names?).

    to talk about physical barriers is relatively easy compared to the much more complicated emotional ones (whichever side of the coin you choose). this bothers me a great deal. nobody really can say if this one child has/will benefit from this. so, in the name of dis rights, we (as a community) judge unilaterally? knowing full well every dis and its accompanying circumstance differs no matter injury level or dis? yes, i have a big problem with that broad stroke of the proverbial paintbrush. actually, i wouldn't even equate it to a paintbrush, but like some painters do, throw it all in a bucket and splash it on a canvas and call it definitive art.
    I totally agree with all of this.
    T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

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  4. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leif
    It’s just a misunderstood care, a care that focuses more on lazy parents helped by some weird doctors. Simple as that.
    Leif... I think these parents are anything but lazy!!!! They could have stuck Ashley in an institution and therefore essentially off the hook as far as her care. Able bodied children are alot of work especially three of them. A disability only ads to this work. I dont view them lazy at all.

    Just curious...Do you have children? How many diapers have you changed for them?

    I am just kidding you...most men are squeamish when it comes to the "dirty work".
    Last edited by darkeyed_daisy; 01-31-2007 at 10:48 AM.
    T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

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  5. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkeyed_daisy
    Leif... I think these parents are anything but lazy!!!! They could have stuck Ashley in an institution and therefore essentially off the hook as far as her care. Able bodied children are alot of work especially three of them. A disability only ads to this work. I dont view them lazy at all.
    As I have written before, I think this kid would have been much better of by that solution (institution), no knifes, surgeries and crazy parents involved, even adopted her to India would have been better, they take much better care of their kids. In fact I think they should not have had any kids from what I can see.
    Just curious...Do you have children? How many diapers have you changed for them?
    I had a dog once and now have a cat, but why do you ask this question? Aren’t people without children allowed to be vocal when child mutilations occur? What a silly question of yours Beside that, I have raised several kids.

    I am just kidding you...most men are squeamish when it comes to the "dirty work".
    How do you know this? Beside that I don’t think you have a clue when it comes to “dirty work” since you are calling changing diapers for so terrible and difficult dirty work. Changing a few diapers are nothing compared too many jobs and I don’t think you were kidding here, deep inside you. Changing diapers are also a very quick thing these days with modern diapers you just throw in the garbage when used, also for one kid you just have to do it a few times a day and in total it just takes minutes a day, no big deal to make a fuzz about, well unless you are lazy like the parents in discussion here that is? In fact I can test how quick I am changing diapers on you, but then I will use diapers with padlocks on so you can sit there for a while and rethink your support for those bad parents. But what has diapers to do with this? I think some of you are lost in the discussion here; you tend to bring in a whole array of issues into this mutilation case which has nothing to do with it. Instead you should look at the wrongs that were done to this specific kid and take a stand based on that. Simple as that. Diapers Lol

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leif
    As I have written before, I think this kid would have been much better of by that solution (institution), no knifes, surgeries and crazy parents involved, even adopted her to India would have been better, they take much better care of their kids. In fact I think they should not have had any kids from what I can see.
    I had a dog once and now have a cat, but why do you ask this question? Aren’t people without children allowed to be vocal when child mutilations occur? What a silly question of yours Beside that, I have raised several kids.


    How do you know this? Beside that I don’t think you a clue when it comes to “dirty work” since you are calling changing diapers for so terrible and difficult dirty work. Changing a few diapers are nothing compared too many jobs and I don’t think you were kidding here, deep inside you. Changing diapers are also a very quick thing these days with modern diapers you just throw in the garbage when used, also for one kid you just have to do it a few times a day and in total it just takes minutes a day, no big deal to make a fuzz about, well unless you are lazy like the parents in discussion here that is? In fact I can test how quick I am changing diapers on you, but then I will use diapers with padlocks on so you can sit there for a while and rethink your support for those bad parents. But what has diapers to do with this? I think some of you are lost in the discussion here; you tend to bring in a whole array of issues into this mutilation case which has nothing to do with it. Instead you should look at the wrongs that were done to this specific kid and take a stand based on that. Simple as that. Diapers Lol
    Leif I am so sorry I offended you...I was really just kidding you with the diaper bit. Please drink your coffee and enjoy your day. I didnt mean to piss you off.
    T12-L2; Burst fracture L1: Incomplete walking with AFO's and cane since 1989

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  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkeyed_daisy
    Leif I am so sorry I offended you...I was really just kidding you with the diaper bit. Please drink your coffee and enjoy your day. I didnt mean to piss you off.
    You didn’t offend me nor piss me off. I am not on task here but the kid is. I was just direct.

    Beside that, here are more tips you can forward to those great parents to make this poor kid easier to care for to make her light since they now are in the surgical modus;

    • Remove one lung. This will save weight and people can live pretty well with just one.
    • Remove one kidney. This will also save some weight and kid will live perfectly with just one.
    • Remove the gall bladder. No use for this.
    • Remove the spleen. No use for this.
    • Remove parts of the bowel system. Will save weight and people can live perfectly after this procedure.
    • Remove parts of her stomach. Will hinder her to take to much intake of food and will thereby save weight and make her easier to care for in the long run.
    • Also, one could go down the road of removing limbs, as such they have done something close to this by removing her breasts.
    • I could also suggest the appendix, and the uterus, but here the good parents already have taken care of this.

    Do you see the insanity in all this?

  8. #528
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    PS. Daisy, this was not an attach on you, I think you know that, view it as an attack on those parents and docs involved.

  9. #529
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Racing
    So removing a hormone producing/supporting organ now is better than dealing with a simple, surgical abortion later?

    C.
    You never know, the parents could be against abortion because of religious purposes. I'm against abortions of any kind.

    Jessie

  10. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by Leif
    [COLOR=black]As I have written before, I think this kid would have been much better of by that solution (institution), no knifes, surgeries and crazy parents involved, even adopted her to India would have been better, they take much better care of their kids.
    Leif dear you completely lost me with this statement. Your institutions must be much different than ours, I wouldn't wish ours on my worst enemy. Death is probably preferrable for one so defenseless.
    Embrace uncertainty. Hard problems rarely have easy solutions. Jonah Lehrer

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