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Thread: ASIA Rating/Surviving Axons/ Remyelination/Recovery

  1. #11
    i think he means 4-AP , put it in the CC search box , tons of info.
    oh well

  2. #12

    30 years..

    30 years for a treatment....what is the point of even chatting on the cure forum? This means that it'll be decades upon decades until results are even brought to light.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by damagedgoods
    30 years for a treatment....what is the point of even chatting on the cure forum? This means that it'll be decades upon decades until results are even brought to light.
    at least someone is in the holiday spirit

    f
    ight

  4. #14
    Banned adi chicago's Avatar
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    if you can use your imagination you can walk when you dream only.
    i walked so many times when i was asleep.sweet dreams.
    • Dum spiro, spero.
      • Translation: "As long as I breathe, I hope."

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by damagedgoods
    30 years for a treatment....what is the point of even chatting on the cure forum? This means that it'll be decades upon decades until results are even brought to light.
    I agree that it is not a helpful to talk about how long it will take a therapies or a cure to arrive. How fast it comes depends on how hard we work on getting therapies into clinical trials. It is very frustrating to me to hear people come up with numbers like 30 years. How long it is going to take is how hard people work to make it happen. The conversation just goes round and round, making everybody frustrated.

    We need to get treatments into well-run and credible clinical trials so that we know what works and what doesn't work. Because resources are very limited, it is critical that we focus the resources on developing what works. While there are a lot of therapies being tried in places like China, the quality of the work was not sufficient to be credible. We have changed that now. Doctors are doing follow-up studies, documenting the results of therapies they are trying. We have brought hundreds of scientists to China so that the doctors and scientists here are getting new ideas and incorporating them into the trials.

    In the United States, we must get clinical trial funding. Because spinal cord injury is considered to be a small market and most companies are unwilling to invest in clinical trials in our field, we need to get the government to help. That is why getting the passage of the Christopher Reeve Paralysis Act was so important and why it was so frustrating that the bill was stopped at the last moment by some anonymous senator who objected to the possibility that the bill may fund embryonic stem cell therapies in clinical trials by the VA.

    Dozens of therapies have been shown to regenerate and remyelinate the spinal cord. Some are better than others. We simply must take the best of them, develop them as best as we can, and then test them in clinical trials. The problem and the solution are both very straightforward. Al this complaining and talking about how long it will take does not help. The more we talk about how long it will take, the longer it will take.


    Wise.
    Last edited by Wise Young; 12-14-2006 at 09:41 PM.

  6. #16
    Banned adi chicago's Avatar
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    without help [funding]from the goverment a cure is not on the way very soon.is sad because scientiests like dr.wise and others want to help to find a cure ,but the politicians stop them .without money and support nobody can do their job.
    Last edited by adi chicago; 12-15-2006 at 12:26 AM.
    • Dum spiro, spero.
      • Translation: "As long as I breathe, I hope."

  7. #17
    Senior Member Schmeky's Avatar
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    damagedgoods,

    No one knows. the NIH is cutting back on funding of SCI research. Dedicated SCI researchers are having to get creative to stay alive. Private investors do not see a return on an investment. Our Government has consistently sent us the message that a drop of funding water out of a #3 washtub is not a worthwhile investment.

    In contrast, we keep saying it can be done if we have funding, but truthfully, the proof of our claim will not create a pudding.

    I call, encourage political officials, stay in touch with researchers, and try to analyze the state of SCI research to the best of my limited abilities. I have seen excellent results in the lab for acute therapies, yet these languish in the lab. Why?

    I visited a lab in 2004 that seemingly had an effective cure for acute injuries, fast forward nearly 3 years later, probably hundreds of thousand of dollars later, and a phase I is not even on the radar screen.

    The more things change the more they remain the same.

  8. #18
    Senior Member spidergirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damagedgoods
    30 years for a treatment....what is the point of even chatting on the cure forum? This means that it'll be decades upon decades until results are even brought to light.

    There is a lot of dishonesty on this forum. The further I research and talk with others the more I come to the conclusion that the CRPA really would not make a difference. If there is a promising therapy out there private sectors will jump in period. Dr. Young I am sorry to say but sometimes you are very contradicting stating at 1 time proof of efficacy in chronics in 3 years, too there has been no recovery in rats tooo it will take 30 years if we don't fight than you say there are dozens of therapies shown to regenerate

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young

    Dozens of therapies have been shown to regenerate and remyelinate the spinal cord.

    Wise.
    which clearly contradicts the no recovery in rodent statement-

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    Buck, most rats don't recover. Wise.
    so I am very confused. What what billion dollar private investment companies would no take advantage of something substantial? There is no proof Dr. Young. Please. I cannot find for the life of me where you stated prrof of efficacy in chronics in 3 years - Schemcky i think you remember this??
    Last edited by spidergirl; 12-15-2006 at 02:01 AM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member spidergirl's Avatar
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    Break a monkeys back and repair it....... show it on video and than see if a private sector will jump in.

  10. #20
    Senior Member dogger's Avatar
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    Schmeky , while the ASIA scale is a very useful tool in describing SCI , it is still not perfect . Until early last year I had not had any tests done that would indicate my ASIA scale since 1991 . Though I'm a walking C5/6 quad , in 1991 I was [or would have been if my SCI unit used the ASIA scale then] graded an ASIA A . On The ASIA scale the only places I got zeros then were C7 [triceps] C8 [finger flexors] and S4/5 [anal wink] . Therefore classifying me complete [ASIA A] .

    Sometime before Feb 2005 [ I think about 2003] I got this back [anal wink/sensation] to become an ASIA D . In 2005 I was in the HP184 trial [was tested on the ASIA scale before starting] and gained about 8 points in both motor and sensation on the ASIA scale while taking HP184 . When the trial results were released they showed that I was taking 200mgs per day . A large part of my motor score increase was in triceps [R/H 0 to 2 , L/H 0 to 3] . Now while something happened in the 13 + years to move me from ASIA A to D , I'd be pretty sure it wasn't remylienation .

    So to my mind , I would have got similar results if I'd been in this trial while I was still ASIA A . A bit of a side note , I was told that of the trial participants in my group , I showed the biggest improvement . I'd also like to add , that there were other tests apart from the ASIA test to base my improvement . One was a timed 10 metre dash . At the start I was taking 30 seconds and by the end of the I had it down to 20 seconds . Now while this doesn't remotely make me any Ben Johnson [I use him because neither of us were drug free for our PBs ] , I bet any athete wishes they could slash their PBs by 1/3 over a 20 week period .

    I also realise that I am somewhat unusual , though not unique , in being an ASIA A[technically complete] with the function and sensation I have .

    I'm saddened to hear that it appears as though Aventis will not be doing further trials with HP184 . While picking up 8 points [out of 100] in function may not seem much , let me tell you it was a souce of constant joy and amusement/amazement to have triceps [albeit weak ones] working again after so long . When they first started working I was like a kid with a new toy and wore them out by sitting with my arm over my head stretching and bending my arm without having my hand coming back to smack me in the face . Damn I miss them now .

    There were other less quantafiable improvents like more ''trustworthy'' bowels and bladder along with being able to squeeze out farts when I felt them building [ yeah , I know , I'm easily amused ] .

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmeky
    Remyelination therapies, from all indications, are beginning to surface. So the logical question would seem to be who could potentially benefit the most or consequently the least.

    Since the objective of remyelination therapies are to re-insulate surviving denuded axons that traverse the injury site, then obviously the greater the number of potentially repairable axons you have, the greater the recovery.

    Therefore my objective is to try to determine which ASIA rating would potentially be a "yes" for remyelination therapies, and where or if a "no" exists. Based on this deduction, one would assume an ASIA A would benefit the least, but how much could an ASIA B benefit, or a C for that matter? Ambulation is attainable at ASIA D.

    We need a combination therapy that not only remyelinates, but also grows new axons as well. We're not there yet, but single modality remyelination therapies appear to be emerging.
    Last edited by dogger; 12-15-2006 at 03:45 AM.
    Every day I wake up is a good one .

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