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Thread: Elephants are self-aware?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by IanTPoulter
    Wise, i agree about slaughtering animals humanely. I am not sure that the western method of mass killing animals with a stun gun on a production line is any more humane than the more traditional method I have experienced in s/e asia of cutting the animals throat and bleeding it though.
    Apparently in western abbatoirs the animals waiting to be slaughtered can sense the fear of the animals preceding them and by the time they get slaughtered have already been in extreme fear for a considerable period of time.
    .
    Uggg, why not just sever their heads and be done with it. All of this degutting and bleeding stuff while their still alive and bellowing/squeeling is so unnecessarily brutal.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by antiquity
    Uggg, why not just sever their heads and be done with it. All of this degutting and bleeding stuff while their still alive and bellowing/squeeling is so unnecessarily brutal.
    Antiquity,

    Cutting off the head is not easy and is quite messy. Why not just use a volatile anesthetic agent that dissipates rapidly and quickly from the tissues of the animal? Such anesthetic agents exist and the animal can be killed in a variety of ways without knowing or feeling the procedures.

    Wise.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquity
    Uggg, why not just sever their heads and be done with it. All of this degutting and bleeding stuff while their still alive and bellowing/squeeling is so unnecessarily brutal.
    An animal guilotine? Maybe a good idea. I have never experienced anyone degutting while an animal is still alive though, that would certainly be unnecassarily brutal for sure, I cant imagine why anyone would want to do that, it serves no purpose. I believe the cutting of the main artery in the throat is the fastest method of slaughter and also provides a way of collecting the blood at the same time. Do you eat meat Senneca?

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    Antiquity,

    Cutting off the head is not easy and is quite messy. Why not just use a volatile anesthetic agent that dissipates rapidly and quickly from the tissues of the animal? Such anesthetic agents exist and the animal can be killed in a variety of ways without knowing or feeling the procedures.

    Wise.

    That's a good idea. I would suspect that the mass animal processing companies would take issue with the cost.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by antiquity
    That's a good idea. I would suspect that the mass animal processing companies would take issue with the cost.
    Think of the savings they would have in terms of public relations and lawsuits. Even if the anesthetic costed $5 per cattle, for example, it would be well worth it. All it takes is one company and all the rest will follow suit, in my opinion. Wise.
    Last edited by Wise Young; 11-26-2006 at 11:47 AM.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by IanTPoulter
    An animal guilotine? Maybe a good idea. I have never experienced anyone degutting while an animal is still alive though, that would certainly be unnecassarily brutal for sure, I cant imagine why anyone would want to do that, it serves no purpose. I believe the cutting of the main artery in the throat is the fastest method of slaughter and also provides a way of collecting the blood at the same time. Do you eat meat Senneca?
    Hi Ian, that's what I thought too before reading the article on kosher slaughtering. I appreciate that the Talmud requires that animals be killed humanely but unfortunately, that's not the case even among some kosher processors.

    I used the moyle(sp) example in my post in the Food forum because I know that flesh can be sliced/cut using approaches that are completely painless. I've even heard knife victims say that they didn't know they had been cut until seeing the blood. I was hoping that these techniques could be applied to animals up for slaughter.
    Last edited by antiquity; 11-26-2006 at 06:16 PM.

  7. #37
    Temple Grandin, an autistic woman, has made a big difference in the design of slaughterhouses to reduce the fear & trauma to the animals, which also makes the work of slaughtering them much easier and safer. The meat of cattle killed while in fear is tougher than that of cattle killed suddenly and unsuspectingly; I assume that's also the case for other animals. So the humanitarian and economical concerns regarding a "good" slaughter nearly coincide.
    When the mobile slaughterer comes to our place every year or two, a .22 bullet to the head drops the animal instantly, then the throat arteries are cut and it's dead in seconds. We are always careful not to frighten or upset it. If we are to eat meat, it must be done humanely, and I think that process qualifies.
    - Richard

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by rfbdorf
    Temple Grandin, an autistic woman, has made a big difference in the design of slaughterhouses to reduce the fear & trauma to the animals, which also makes the work of slaughtering them much easier and safer. The meat of cattle killed while in fear is tougher than that of cattle killed suddenly and unsuspectingly; I assume that's also the case for other animals. So the humanitarian and economical concerns regarding a "good" slaughter nearly coincide.
    When the mobile slaughterer comes to our place every year or two, a .22 bullet to the head drops the animal instantly, then the throat arteries are cut and it's dead in seconds. We are always careful not to frighten or upset it. If we are to eat meat, it must be done humanely, and I think that process qualifies.
    - Richard
    Richard,

    Yes, thanks for that reminder. The design of slaughterhouses is very important for reducing suffering of cattle.

    A bullet to the head is pretty effective, if it is done properly. I have seen people walk into the emergency room after having been shot in the head with a .22 bullet. There is this amazing story of a Brazilian woman who had been shot six times in the head and still lived to say:

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html
    "I know this was a miracle," 21-year-old housewife Patricia Goncalves Pereira told Globo TV. "Now I just want to extract the bullets and live my life."
    But, I have also seen a person walk into the Bellevue emergency room with a butcher knife stuck clear through his head from side to side. It had gone in one temple and came out the other. It was actually quite a remarkable situation. His brother had brought him to the hospital, mumbling sheepish apologies for having stuck the knife into his brother during a quarrel. I remember the debate by the residents whether they should extract the knife under anesthesia or just pull it out. They did the former.

    The shooting must be done carefully.

    Wise.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquity
    Hi Ian, that's what I thought too before reading the article on kosher slaughtering. I appreciate that the Talmud requires that animals be killed humanely but unfortunately, that's not the case even among some kosher processors.

    I used the moyle(sp) example in my post in the Food forum because I know that flesh can be sliced/cut using approaches that are completely painless. I've even heard knife victims say that they didn't know they had been cut until seeing the blood. I was hoping that these techniques could be applied to animals up for slaughter.
    I had no idea the method was so inhumane. Surely the animal protection societies are aware of this?

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