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Thread: ZRA Camber

  1. #1

    ZRA Camber

    I am trying to adjust the toe in/toe out on my ZRA and I dont see anything in the manual about it and I dont see it directly on the chair. Has anyone else changed their camber or am I stuck at 0 degrees?
    C5-6 - 22 years

  2. #2
    You have no need to adjust toe in/out if your ZRa has zero degrees camber because there isn't any.

    Toe in/out and camber are different, but related. Camber adds agility to a wheelchair's turning properties and possibly stability. As long as the wheelchair does not become too wide, 2-6 degrees of camber is generally a good thing. If you were looking at the wheelchair from above, the wheels would be parallel to each other and the axles perpendicular to the frame if the toe in/out has been corrected. This should be the case whether the wheelchair has 2 degrees or 16 degrees of camber.

    Toe in/toe out on the other hand, is camber gone bad. Say someone takes a ZRa with 4 degrees of camber, loosens both axle clamps, and rotates their camber tube 90 degrees. When viewed from above, the axles would be at an angle of either 86 or 94 degrees with respect to the frame and the wheels would point toward or away from each other. The ZRa would now have 0 degrees camber and 4 degrees of toe in/toe out. This translates into resistance when self-propelling the chair and excessive tire wear from the tires/wheels fighting each other.

    Invacare states that the toe is correctly set at the factory with their dual camber insert system. I have had to show a few A4 users how to correct toe in/out because they loosened both camber clamps at the same time and accidentally rotated the axle tube when flipping their inserts. To prevent this, I recommend A4 users, or Top End Terminator users who have the A4 camber system, do one side at a time when switching camber inserts. But I again digress...

    With respect to the ZRa, you are not stuck, but it will cost you. In order to change your camber, you would need to purchase a different camber tube from TiLite. To correct the toe after it is installed, it is imperative that the flat sides of the camber plug (not the smaller axle sleeve) be perpendicular to the floor. This can be done using a large framing square or you could purchase TiLite's bubble level (part 5 in the ZR axle assembly diagram below)...



    You can find part numbers for the ZRa camber tubes at he link below but you need to call TiLite with your serial number so they can determine the correct camber tube length to maintain your wheel spacing.

    http://www.tilite.com/pdf/6_AxlePlates_Axles.pdf
    Last edited by SCI_OTR; 02-04-2007 at 11:06 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member sowseng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    You have no need to adjust toe in/out if your ZRa has zero degrees camber because there isn't any.

    Toe in/out and camber are different, but related. Camber adds agility to a wheelchair's turning properties and possibly stability. As long as the wheelchair does not become too wide, 2-6 degrees of camber is generally a good thing. If you were looking at the wheelchair from above, the wheels would be parallel to each other and the axles perpendicular to the frame if the toe in/out has been corrected. This should be the case whether the wheelchair has 2 degrees or 16 degrees of camber.

    Toe in/toe out on the other hand, is camber gone bad. Say someone takes a ZRa with 4 degrees of camber, loosens both axle clamps, and rotates their camber tube 90 degrees. When viewed from above, the axles would be at an angle of either 86 or 94 degrees with respect to the frame and the wheels would point toward or away from each other. The ZRa would now have 0 degrees camber and 4 degrees of toe in/toe out. This translates into resistance when self-propelling the chair and excessive tire wear from the tires/wheels fighting each other.

    Invacare states that the toe is correctly set at the factory with their dual camber insert system. I have had to show a few A4 users how to correct toe in/out because they loosened both camber clamps at the same time and accidentally rotated the axle tube when flipping their inserts. To prevent this, I recommend A4 users, or Top End Terminator users who have the A4 camber system, do one side at a time when switching camber inserts. But I again digress...

    With respect to the ZRa, you are not stuck, but it will cost you. In order to change your camber, you would need to purchase a different camber tube from TiLite. To correct the toe after it is installed, it is imperative that the flat sides of the camber plug (not the smaller axle sleeve) be perpendicular to the floor. This can be done using a large framing square or you could purchase TiLite's bubble level (part 5 in the ZR axle assembly diagram below)...



    You can find part numbers for the ZRa camber tubes at he link below but you need to call TiLite with your serial number so they can determine the correct camber tube length to maintain your wheel spacing.

    http://www.tilite.com/pdf/6_AxlePlates_Axles.pdf
    Why not they design a ball level like Quickie ?
    Life is meaningles, though you create the purpose.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by sowseng View Post
    Why not they design a ball level like Quickie ?
    IMO, that ball is more of a gimmick than an accurate measure of how square the camber tube actually aligned.

    Besides, in order to see the ball, wouldn't you have to be lying on your back under your chair looking up at it to tell if it's aligned?


  5. #5
    Senior Member sowseng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    With respect to the ZRa, you are not stuck, but it will cost you. In order to change your camber, you would need to purchase a different camber tube from TiLite. To correct the toe after it is installed, it is imperative that the flat sides of the camber plug (not the smaller axle sleeve) be perpendicular to the floor. This can be done using a large framing square or you could purchase TiLite's bubble level (part 5 in the ZR axle assembly diagram below)...
    Do you have any illustation to elabrote more clearly how it works? I can't open your PDF file.
    Life is meaningles, though you create the purpose.

  6. #6
    Senior Member sowseng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    IMO, that ball is more of a gimmick than an accurate measure of how square the camber tube actually aligned.

    Besides, in order to see the ball, wouldn't you have to be lying on your back under your chair looking up at it to tell if it's aligned?
    No need to lie under the chair, just look at it by the side will do.
    Life is meaningles, though you create the purpose.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sowseng View Post
    No need to lie under the chair, just look at it by the side will do.
    That link is a couple of years old. On a GT or GTi it is probably easier and more accurate to reference the "flats" at the end of the camber plug (not the axle sleeve). I'm not sure that bubble level is accurate and the end of the screw used to attach it is just another sharp edge waiting to scratch something...



    Flats are present on the camber plugs or camber tubes of just about every rigid frame model out there. If the flat section appears to be perpendicular to the ground, there should be no toe in or toe out. It is important to look at it from a couple of different angles to verify it is perpendicular. If it is viewed from only a single perspective, it may give the illusion of being perpendicular even though it is not.





    For greater amounts of camber such as a handcycle or basketball chair, an alignment gauge designed to adjust camber/toe could be useful.


  8. #8
    Senior Member sowseng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    That link is a couple of years old. On a GT or GTi it is probably easier and more accurate to reference the "flats" at the end of the camber plug (not the axle sleeve). I'm not sure that bubble level is accurate and the end of the screw used to attach it is just another sharp edge waiting to scratch something...



    Flats are present on the camber plugs or camber tubes of just about every rigid frame model out there. If the flat section appears to be perpendicular to the ground, there should be no toe in or toe out. It is important to look at it from a couple of different angles to verify it is perpendicular. If it is viewed from only a single perspective, it may give the illusion of being perpendicular even though it is not.





    For greater amounts of camber such as a handcycle or basketball chair, an alignment gauge designed to adjust camber/toe could be useful.
    Thanks for your lesson, how about Tilite toe in out adjustment ?
    Life is meaningles, though you create the purpose.

  9. #9
    Senior Member sowseng's Avatar
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    So when we adjust the toe in/out, we have to put something under rear wheel seat to ensure the height we want, right ?
    Life is meaningles, though you create the purpose.

  10. #10
    Senior Member sowseng's Avatar
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    Is is possible to dissemble the camber plug?
    My friend want to shorten it's camber tube.
    Life is meaningles, though you create the purpose.

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