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Thread: Just an observation....

  1. #1
    Senior Member ChopperChick's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Just an observation....

    When Mike get's tickeled on his feet or someone pulls a hair on his leg, his body reacts like he would normally. Like his foot and leg will move around if tickeled, if poked his leg will flinch. Does that happen to most of you too?

    Another thing I am noticing is last time he was checked out he didn't have that reflex when the doc taps below your knee but he has that now.

  2. #2
    Senior Member CapnGimp's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    These are all good signs. He IS getting return. I remember my phsysiatrist was stumped when I had no reflex a few weeks out of rehab. Later they said maybe I had damage in the lower levels of my spine, just a speculation though. I am a complete, never any indication otherwise in over 10 years.
    Mike is definitely NOT a complete and the more new things show up, the giddier I would be. AND hard at work exercising what I could. Go toss him in the pool!

  3. #3
    Senior Member ChopperChick's Avatar
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    Thanks Capn, I am always looking for something positive!!

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    Senior Member Aly's Avatar
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    Sometimes my legs and/or feet react sometimes they do not, it has been like that since week 2 for me (just had year 13). His reaction sounds consistant which to me sounds like a good thing. Hope he keeps getting better!!!
    www.cawvsports.org
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  5. #5
    Mike does sound incomplete. But the return of reflexes, and the enhancement of reflexes, are signs of upper motor neuron lesion. Nothing to be thrilled about. Do a search for upper motor neuron versus lower motor neuron lesions.

    You can test most muscle groups in Mike yourself by following the simple instructions in this link

    http://mchip00.nyu.edu/neurosurgery/motor.html

    Remember when we played doctors and nurses as children?
    Last edited by Cripply; 08-09-2006 at 01:31 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Cripply
    Mike does sound incomplete. But the return of reflexes, and the enhancement of reflexes, are signs of upper motor neuron lesion. Nothing to be thrilled about. Do a search for upper motor neuron versus lower motor neuron lesions.

    You can test most muscle groups in Mike yourself by following the simple instructions in this link

    http://mchip00.nyu.edu/neurosurgery/motor.html

    Remember when we played doctors and nurses as children?
    Hey, any positive neurological changes is reason to be excited. It could mean that his body is healing.
    Daniel

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dan_nc
    Hey, any positive neurological changes is reason to be excited. It could mean that his body is healing.
    I am sorry Dan but that is not true. A doctor could examine those reflexes and determine that they are not normal at all. To not have reflexes and then to have them says nothing much about recovery. I´ll try to post a link.

    Now, if someone recovers sensation, VOLUNTARY movement, no matter how weak, a sense of where his limbs are without having to look...those kinds of things show improvement.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Cripply
    I am sorry Dan but that is not true. A doctor could examine those reflexes and determine that they are not normal at all. To not have reflexes and then to have them says nothing much about recovery. I´ll try to post a link.

    Now, if someone recovers sensation, VOLUNTARY movement, no matter how weak, a sense of where his limbs are without having to look...those kinds of things show improvement.
    I agree that return of reflexes is not an indicator of more recovery, and certainly in the grand scheme of things, is probably not extremely important. That said, I don't think you need to spoil ChopperChick's excitement. I don't think that taking away the bit of hopefulness in her tone is helpful at all. I'm a firm believe that "hope" itself is very therapeutic. I'm sure she gets enough discouraging statements from everything else she reads about Mike's prognosis.

    Return of reflexes could mean end of spinal shock and that swelling is going down in the cord. Other changes may also occur in this timeframe.

    And as far as UMN vs LMN, at least from all the reading on CC, seems like most research is done on a "cure" for UMN lesions, less on LMN lesions. So yes, it'd probably be preferable to have UMN injury instead of a LMN one. I know personally, I'd rather have spasticity, reflexes and tone than the flaccid legs that SCI has dealt me.
    Daniel

  9. #9
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    Dan’ Reflexes can be useful for determining the situation, i.e. for the Babinski test this is used to determine if there is a break in the signal pathways in the spinal cord for the signals to reach the brain and vice versa. So to have this reflex only proves that there is something wrong, it is an abnormal reflex in adults. Not all reflexes are necessarily good reflexes as such.

  10. #10
    Dan, sorry if I have touched on a sore spot for you. But worse than taking away hope is lying about signs of recovery.
    I started by saying that Mike sounds incomplete, therefore I am confident that he will recover lots.
    I find the tone of your post a bit confrontational. I guess it comes from your LMNess. I am convinced that LMNs will be a lot easier to cure than UMNs, nobody has clear evidence about anything. So if you miss reflexes, so be it. But reflexes ain´t nothing to be thrilled about.

    As for spinal shock end heralding the beginning of recovery: If you don´t find yourself recovering well and fast, then it was not only spinal shock. It was something else worse than spinal shock only. So it´s a bummer for spinal shock to end and for things not to start happening noticeably. While there is spinal shock (a controversial term anyway) there´s hope of huge recovery. Which, again, might be the case for Mike yet.
    ETA And why don´t we all go to bed? It´s late and I am going to dream that I can stand like you, Dan, instead of fighting spasms all night.
    Last edited by Cripply; 08-09-2006 at 03:28 AM.

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