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Thread: Some SCI Can Be Cured

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by XYNaPSE
    Hey thanks for that. Its all very interesting. Stem cells rely on the neighboring cells. Yep. I also find it strange that they can be chemically coaxed into leaving the bone marrow and then new stem cells from a donor person are injected into the patient, then migrate to where the original bone marrow stem cells where. How do they know or --better yet-- how does the body know, once the stem cells are injected, to get them to migrate to the bone marrow?
    No problem and it are interesting: As I understand it, some stem cells are migratory cells. Yet, if some believe it is enough just to take some blood/bone marrow stem cells just alone and inject those into a injured spinal cord to fix it I say this is a bit naïve and in worst case (without me believing that because I don’t believe blood stem cells does “fasten” or do anything in a spinal cord) can create cancer by interfering with this sophisticated signalling system between the “niche” and the cells in the cord. To better understand the signalling between a stem cell and the niche it is also very important to study human embryonic stem cells just by the only reason to better understand the signalling processes. It is shown that some signalling like Wnt and other signalling processes are increasing when embryonic stem cells is derived (leaves it’s niche), the same takes part somethimes i.e. when a cell in our skin leaves it’s niche to become an early phase of cancer (due interference with the signalling). Not that those embryonic stem cells equal cancer though, but for understanding how cells communicate they can give researchers a clue here. Due to this similarities and that it is “easy” to study them in labs, human embryonic stem cell research is also very important in cancer studies for finding cures for cancer. Likewise for understanding how the cells in the spinal cord communicate, above that those cells have also created neurons in labs but since the understanding of the signalling is not yet fully understood some researchers are also sceptical to just inject those cell types.

    Due to all this we have to support basic research as best we can for researcher to find out more here. Clinical trials of course should also be supported for trials for testing what researchers know at the present and also to be able to have this infrastructure ready when more is known to be able to speed up the process of moving new discoveries from the labs to trials.
    Last edited by Leif; 06-02-2006 at 04:53 PM.

  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Leif
    No problem and it are interesting: As I understand it, some stem cells are migratory cells. Yet, if some believe it is enough just to take some blood/bone marrow stem cells just alone and inject those into a injured spinal cord to fix it I say this is a bit naïve and in worst case (without me believing that because I don’t believe blood stem cells does “fasten” or do anything in a spinal cord) can create cancer by interfering with this sophisticated signalling system between the “niche” and the cells in the cord. To better understand the signalling between a stem cell and the niche it is also very important to study human embryonic stem cells just by the only reason to better understand the signalling processes. It is shown that some signalling like Wnt and other signalling processes are increasing when embryonic stem cells is derived (leaves it’s niche), the same takes part somethimes i.e. when a cell in our skin leaves it’s niche to become an early phase of cancer (due interference with the signalling). Not that those embryonic stem cells equal cancer though, but for understanding how cells communicate they can give researchers a clue here. Due to this similarities and that it is “easy” to study them in labs, human embryonic stem cell research is also very important in cancer studies for finding cures for cancer. Likewise for understanding how the cells in the spinal cord communicate, above that those cells have also created neurons in labs but since the understanding of the signalling is not yet fully understood some researchers are also sceptical to just inject those cell types.

    Due to all this we have to support basic research as best we can for researcher to find out more here. Clinical trials of course should also be supported for trials for testing what researchers know at the present and also to be able to have this infrastructure ready when more is known to be able to speed up the process of moving new discoveries from the labs to trials.
    I have always been troubled by the concept of stem cells "homing" into specific tissues. We don't understand how they do it but if you cut yourself, within an hour or less, all these cells appear at the cut, like little fire engines coming to a three-alarm fire. Somehow, the injured cells made a 911 call and the message got out into the bloodstream and the cells start to arrive.

    How do cells migrate? Migration is an incredibly complex phenomenon. First, the cells must have the receptors for whatever the signal is. Presumably, it is a chemical signal, to tell the cell to get off its butt and start moving. Second, the cell must decide which direction to go. How does it do that? After all, a cell is sort of like a plant. Presumably, the chemical signal affects one side of the cell more than the other, and the cell decides to move toward side with the stronger signal. Third, the cell will encounter a lot of obstacles in its way, each of which may stop it in its tracks or divert it. Presumably, the cell goes into some kind of migratory mode where it keeps going. Fourth, the cell gets to where it should be. Presumably, there is a stop signal that tells the cell to go out of the migratory mode, to tell the cell that Odysseus has finally reached his home. The problem is that we don't now have a clue concerning most of these signals.

    How do stem cells know what kind of tissue they are in? If a stem cell produces the wrong type or wrong number of cells for the specific tissue, i.e. a toenail in the spinal cord, it would not be good and some would even call it a tumor. So, stem cells must be incredible creatures, able to know what tissue it has gone into and how many cells it can make. Alternatively, they may be really slave creatures, unable to do anything on their own except what the tissue tells them to do. In fact, that is what most adult stem cells seem to be... slave cells that can only work with certain cells, called a stem cell niche, to produce additional cells. The main exception to this are the embryonic stem cells. These cells are designed to do it on their own from scratch.

    Wise.

  3. #73
    Senior Member artsyguy1954's Avatar
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    Stemcells almost seem to be like onecelled "animals" with some sort of weirdly innate, primitive "intelligence" (Just a naive thought of mine, for what it's worth).

  4. #74
    K... first of all let me say I HAVE HAD acupuncture done for the last year. My acupuncturist was given a training lesson by the guy who started the therapy that is likely used by hopeforsci's doctor. So, for everyone on here, I can answer a few questions.

    first - the therapy is called scalp acupuncture, and what it does is help magnify signals that you send down from your brain through your cord into your lower body. I am a complete injury but i decided to try it out anyways. The therapy isnt based solely on acupuncture. My guy, his name is Dr. Zhu, put it like this. Acupuncture is merely opening a door for sci, the injured person still has to walk through it. The theory is that WITH MANY hours dedicated to something called Daoyin, and acupuncture to assist, some recovery can be attained. Daoyin is pretty much A LOT of exercise, including passive movement, and mental focus. even if there is no movement, using the brain to send signals down the cord is still important. essentially you keep sending signals and the accupuncture will help find new pathways to your muscles, or help reawaken "sleeping" ones.
    now to us who have grown up with western medicin, this doesnt seem at all believable. but here is my account of what has happned with me, and of another guy who did it down in the states. I have not regained any movement, but i DID regain some sensation well below my injury, i think on my back i can feel all the way to t-11. i also have more stability in my trunk, but nothing extrodinary. BUT take into account, i did not have the will power to do the recommended 6 to 8 hours of daoyin every day. I was to distracted by being utterly sad about my new situation, which i regret now... i wish i had put into it more, but thats neither here nor there. the guy down in the states who did it was a t12 COMPLETEly severed sci. he DID do much more daoyin, and worked directly with Dr. Zhu every day. by the first year he could crawl, and swing his legs very slightly, but noticably, and on command. now this is extrodinary because he was a clean cut. (BTW i ahve seen video of this, so im aint fuckin with ya). he also regained bladder and bowel control.
    i think that acupuncture CAN help. cure no, but the term cure is used so lightly on here. i think that quite possibly, for some, if they put 2 hard years into it, they would gain alot. but not many of us have teh resources or the mental strength to do it properly. keep in mind, the theory behind acupuncture works the same as taking medicine. if the dosage is to low, the results wont be as good. it would be like mastering a martial art, but in the form of trying to walk again. do you guys know what some chinese can accomplish in the form of martial arts? think of their focus? i think that this type of focus is required for results to come out of acupuncture.

    so just because noone has done it yet, doesnt mean it cant work. as far as the benefits of acupuncture in general... it kept me pain free, now i have none. i dont know though, there could be many reasons for why i have no pain... but acu did help initially i have no doubt. i remember the guy twitchin a needle and the pain in my back litterally disapearing in a second.

    i think this is one of those "just because you dont understand it, doesnt give you the right to dismiss it as false" kinda deals.

    hope this helps .
    "One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain ." Bob Marley

  5. #75

    Let's Build Some Respect

    Paramoto:

    Sorry about my tone in my previous postings. I apologize if I offended you. Now I have modified my previous postings and hope my tone becomes acceptable to you. But I was very much distracted by the foul language and personal attacks posted in the forum. I was so discouraged that I did not want to come back to read the forum again. Foul language or dirty words are garbage or smelly dirt. They do not belong to our forum. This forum is about information, learning, and intelligent discussions. Here is the general discussion and is not to you. So please don't take it personally.

    Dr. Wise Young has provided us the best website for SCI information. Let’s all respect his work. Let me put it in an analogy here. Dr. Young’s website is like a five-star resort and these forums are like the beautiful Olympic-size luxury swimming pools in his resort. People with postings are the people swimming in the pool. Most people are viewers so they are the bystanders near the pool. Most people come to this website for information and do not participate in the discussions. When you throw out your dirty words, this is like putting your dirt into the pool thus polluting it. As time goes, the pool becomes so contaminated and most bystanders will leave unhappily because the scenery becomes so ugly. Also people in the pool can no longer stand the pollution and get out and leave.

    I feel offended by reading those postings with foul language. A lot of people would agree with me. People turn away from the forum because of that even though there are so many great postings by Dr. Young and other people.

    Whenever you throw your dirt in front of the public, not only do you show no respect to yourself but also disrespect other people. You might feel better at that point by unloading your dirt. But you will be seen as a low human being and uneducated. I know my words might be hard to swallow for some people with dirty postings. But here is a way we can all clean up. Please go back to your postings and edit the dirty words out and replace it with intelligent opinions. If you clean up your dirt from this website, my description here will not apply to you. I know some bystanders might feel uncomfortable reading my comments here. But I promise to remove my harsh words after their dirt is cleaned.

    Let’s all keep in mind our postings are read by all the people around the world. Be mindful about other people’s feelings. I will appreciate your understandings and let’s work together to contribute to the quality of this website.

    Thank you.
    HopeForSCI@yahoo.com

    Quote Originally Posted by paramoto
    It's just the tone, the claim, preaching to us as if we broke our brain, not our backs. I think this guy is an anti-cure guy posing. The minute somebody asks a direct question, he comes back with more garbage. Cannot be real.

  6. #76

    Accupuncture and Chinese Medicine Work

    FellinBarcelona:

    Thank you for your excellent explanations. My doctor explained the same to me but I was not able to write it so well-phrased like yours. Congratulations on your recovery. Keep up with your good work and you will be rewarded accordingly.

    Here is analogy my doctor once told me. The treatment process is accumulative. It is like rock climbing. You are the rock climber but have difficulty holding your rope. The treatment is the force to push you up. He pushes you up three steps during the treatment. Then let you hold it. But your body has tendency to return its original place and fall down. So you tend to slip down two steps. Basically you just move up one step before the next treatment. Each treatment move you up a new step until you reach a plateau. Until that moment you can hold your own for a lot longer and you see good improvement in your body. But the job is not done since you have not reached the top of the rock yet. With persistence and discipline, you will eventually reach the top. Now you have achieved the balance of energy within your body and you are in great health.

    I believe our health care cost will be reduced dramatically if we adopt acupuncture and Chinese medicine in our daily life. Currently we are far away from reaching that. Even in China, not everyone agree with it. It is sad to see such fact. In China, many people go to see acupuncture and Chinese medicine doctor only after they exhaust all the treatments from Western medicine. Isn’t that ironic?

    In China, Chinese medicine is commonly used as part of cancer treatment. Large hospitals have a big department specializing cancer treatment using herbs. It works and that is the only thing matters. For example, for liver cancer discovered in later stage, patient might survive for a year with only Western medicine treatments. But the patient might survive three years if Chinese medicine is incorporated into the treatment program. The difference here is the Western medicine is ridiculously more expensive than Chinese medicine.

    Thank you and keep sharing your great information so everyone can be benefited.

    HopeForSCI

    Quote Originally Posted by FellinBarcelona
    K... first of all let me say I HAVE HAD acupuncture done for the last year. My acupuncturist was given a training lesson by the guy who started the therapy that is likely used by hopeforsci's doctor. So, for everyone on here, I can answer a few questions.

    first - the therapy is called scalp acupuncture, and what it does is help magnify signals that you send down from your brain through your cord into your lower body. I am a complete injury but i decided to try it out anyways. The therapy isnt based solely on acupuncture. My guy, his name is Dr. Zhu, put it like this. Acupuncture is merely opening a door for sci, the injured person still has to walk through it. The theory is that WITH MANY hours dedicated to something called Daoyin, and acupuncture to assist, some recovery can be attained. Daoyin is pretty much A LOT of exercise, including passive movement, and mental focus. even if there is no movement, using the brain to send signals down the cord is still important. essentially you keep sending signals and the accupuncture will help find new pathways to your muscles, or help reawaken "sleeping" ones.
    now to us who have grown up with western medicin, this doesnt seem at all believable. but here is my account of what has happned with me, and of another guy who did it down in the states. I have not regained any movement, but i DID regain some sensation well below my injury, i think on my back i can feel all the way to t-11. i also have more stability in my trunk, but nothing extrodinary. BUT take into account, i did not have the will power to do the recommended 6 to 8 hours of daoyin every day. I was to distracted by being utterly sad about my new situation, which i regret now... i wish i had put into it more, but thats neither here nor there. the guy down in the states who did it was a t12 COMPLETEly severed sci. he DID do much more daoyin, and worked directly with Dr. Zhu every day. by the first year he could crawl, and swing his legs very slightly, but noticably, and on command. now this is extrodinary because he was a clean cut. (BTW i ahve seen video of this, so im aint fuckin with ya). he also regained bladder and bowel control.
    i think that acupuncture CAN help. cure no, but the term cure is used so lightly on here. i think that quite possibly, for some, if they put 2 hard years into it, they would gain alot. but not many of us have teh resources or the mental strength to do it properly. keep in mind, the theory behind acupuncture works the same as taking medicine. if the dosage is to low, the results wont be as good. it would be like mastering a martial art, but in the form of trying to walk again. do you guys know what some chinese can accomplish in the form of martial arts? think of their focus? i think that this type of focus is required for results to come out of acupuncture.

    so just because noone has done it yet, doesnt mean it cant work. as far as the benefits of acupuncture in general... it kept me pain free, now i have none. i dont know though, there could be many reasons for why i have no pain... but acu did help initially i have no doubt. i remember the guy twitchin a needle and the pain in my back litterally disapearing in a second.

    i think this is one of those "just because you dont understand it, doesnt give you the right to dismiss it as false" kinda deals.

    hope this helps .
    Last edited by HopeForSCI; 06-04-2006 at 02:00 PM.

  7. #77

    Our Body Regenerate Neuron

    IanTPoulter:

    Acupuncture and Chinese medicine treatments are to raise the level of our health so our body can heal itself. We know our body can regenerate neuron. With healthier state of body, neuron regeneration can be encouraged and more neuron can be regenerated.

    Acupuncturist cannot replace neuron by injecting something into our spine like surgeon. Before surgery becomes safe and effective, acupuncture and Chinese medicine is probably the most cost-effective and safest way to recover SCI.

    HopeForSCI

    Quote Originally Posted by IanTPoulter
    Can he replace neurons in the spinal cord?

  8. #78
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    if that were true, we'd already be cured we'd be walking, and there would be no site like this.
    Never take life seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway

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  9. #79
    Suspended Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HopeForSCI
    I was so discouraged that I did not want to come back to read the forum again.
    You should have stayed discouraged...this place really sucks, you definately dont want to be here!

  10. #80
    I have just checked every single one of my posts and did not find one single use of foul language, so your gator tears do not move me.

    You must have broken the record for utilization of the most words without answering a single question. I sometimes think you are one of those Dr. Young detractors posing with such ridiculous, unsubstantiated, undocumented, unfounded and unproven claims to stir this debate in order to make those who believe the cure will be here one day look silly. You have yet to write as much as a coherent sentence to date.

    I agree that Dr. Young´s work is to be commended and most of us thank him for that, and I may be wrong, but I have yet to read that his work in China has any relation to your claims. So, start backing your endless riddles with some coherent and reliable data for us sceptics, or don´t complain if the kitchen gets a bit hot.



    Quote Originally Posted by HopeForSCI
    Paramoto:

    Sorry about my tone in my previous postings. I apologize if I offended you. Now I have modified my previous postings and hope my tone becomes acceptable to you. But I was very much distracted by the foul language and personal attacks posted in the forum. I was so discouraged that I did not want to come back to read the forum again. Foul language or dirty words are garbage or smelly dirt. They do not belong to our forum. This forum is about information, learning, and intelligent discussions. Here is the general discussion and is not to you. So please don't take it personally.

    Dr. Wise Young has provided us the best website for SCI information. Let’s all respect his work. Let me put it in an analogy here. Dr. Young’s website is like a five-star resort and these forums are like the beautiful Olympic-size luxury swimming pools in his resort. People with postings are the people swimming in the pool. Most people are viewers so they are the bystanders near the pool. Most people come to this website for information and do not participate in the discussions. When you throw out your dirty words, this is like putting your dirt into the pool thus polluting it. As time goes, the pool becomes so contaminated and most bystanders will leave unhappily because the scenery becomes so ugly. Also people in the pool can no longer stand the pollution and get out and leave.

    I feel offended by reading those postings with foul language. A lot of people would agree with me. People turn away from the forum because of that even though there are so many great postings by Dr. Young and other people.

    Whenever you throw your dirt in front of the public, not only do you show no respect to yourself but also disrespect other people. You might feel better at that point by unloading your dirt. But you will be seen as a low human being and uneducated. I know my words might be hard to swallow for some people with dirty postings. But here is a way we can all clean up. Please go back to your postings and edit the dirty words out and replace it with intelligent opinions. If you clean up your dirt from this website, my description here will not apply to you. I know some bystanders might feel uncomfortable reading my comments here. But I promise to remove my harsh words after their dirt is cleaned.

    Let’s all keep in mind our postings are read by all the people around the world. Be mindful about other people’s feelings. I will appreciate your understandings and let’s work together to contribute to the quality of this website.

    Thank you.
    HopeForSCI@yahoo.com
    T6 complete (or so I think), SCI since September 21, 2003

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