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Thread: Bowel care, interesting

  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Pharmacist, C4-5 injury but functional C6 (no triceps/flexors)

  2. #2
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    WOW! One more thing to look forward to!

  3. #3
    Sheesh, a shot every day to stimulate a movement?
    And what other side effects are there? At least dig stim is not systemic, for sure, and an enema or suppository probably has little effect on the rest of the body.
    OTOH, I'm sure there are cases where something like this would be useful.
    - Richard
    Last edited by rfbdorf; 05-25-2006 at 02:10 AM.

  4. #4
    A supposority in a syringe that gets to saturate every other organ in the body as it stimulates the bowel. Big deal. Sounds like killing an ant with a shotgun approach.... another money-maker for Big Pharma. I guess there will be another drug that's administered with it to keep the heart rate normalized.

    Why not a safe drug that we can dilute in water and inject via a catheter into our urethra and even the bladder that will kill bacteria causing UTIs yet not harm the delicate membranes.

    No, suppositories are cheap but Cipro is 10 bucks a pill x 10 or 20 for each infection. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or biologist to figure this one out, just an accountant.
    "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob clark
    A supposority in a syringe that gets to saturate every other organ in the body as it stimulates the bowel. Big deal. Sounds like killing an ant with a shotgun approach.... another money-maker for Big Pharma. I guess there will be another drug that's administered with it to keep the heart rate normalized.

    Why not a safe drug that we can dilute in water and inject via a catheter into our urethra and even the bladder that will kill bacteria causing UTIs yet not harm the delicate membranes.

    No, suppositories are cheap but Cipro is 10 bucks a pill x 10 or 20 for each infection. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or biologist to figure this one out, just an accountant.
    It looks like you did not even read the thing because you would have seen that yes another drug needs to be given at the same time. The question is not to kill an ant with a shotgun but to try to help some people that need to spend sometimes as much as 2-3 hours to shit everyday if they don't want to get an accident. They then develop hemorroids, bleeding, fissures and so on ... The drugs used are available as generics, no patent on that, but yes those that will find a way to administer them in an easy and safe way will get money from that idea.

    As for the rest of your argument about suppositories, urethra, bladder and UTI's, I don't follow you anymore.
    Pharmacist, C4-5 injury but functional C6 (no triceps/flexors)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by JGNI
    It looks like you did not even read the thing because you would have seen that yes another drug needs to be given at the same time. The question is not to kill an ant with a shotgun but to try to help some people that need to spend sometimes as much as 2-3 hours to shit everyday if they don't want to get an accident. They then develop hemorroids, bleeding, fissures and so on ... The drugs used are available as generics, no patent on that, but yes those that will find a way to administer them in an easy and safe way will get money from that idea.
    Hi JGNI,

    I read the article. I shouldn't have written the "I guess" in the sentence "I guess there will be another drug that's administered with it to keep the heart rate normalized" since these two drugs will supposedly be mixed together and administered at the same time. Of course this can only be determined after the experimental trials by CRADA at the VA have been completed and the results assessed.

    Just because a drug is available in generic form doesn't necessarily mean that it will be inexpensive. Especially since it will become another drug or special drug mixture because the two drugs mentioned will need to be mixed together and more than likely be marketed in that way. The drug companies just need to change the shape, color or slightly adjust the dosage of a pill/drug and the patent restrictions change. Why should this incarnation of combining two generic drugs to create a new different drug be any different?

    Since the studies haven't been completed we don't know what the side effects of the treatment will be. Maybe the same as taking laxatives and/or suppositories plus whatever havoc it may wreak on the body system as a whole. Many people develop hemorroids, bleeding, fissures and so on anyway.... it's just another age related/SCI related "goodie" to look forward to.

    I haven't heard of a drug treatment yet that isn't repleat with more complications and contraindications than you can shake a stick at. What makes you think that this one will be any different and work as a GI tract panacea? I don't see how the timing of a bowel movement will be narrowed down and perfectly timed to give the patient the added confidence that the article cites and that you seem to believe that it will. Especially since they've already listed the myriad of possible/probable delivery systems, all taking different times to get to the desired site of activity: oral ingestion; intravenous, subcutaneous and intramuscular injection; inhalation; and transdermal and transmucosal administration. Everybody's reaction to every drug is different and always changes with time.

    Quote Originally Posted by JGNI
    As for the rest of your argument about the urethra, bladder and UTI's, I don't follow you anymore
    I wrote: "Why not a safe drug that we can dilute in water and inject via a catheter into our urethra and even the bladder that will kill bacteria causing UTIs yet not harm the delicate membranes."

    Since most UTIs start on the glans (male) then move into the urethra via the meatus and begin to multiply in there and are then shoved into the bladder with a sterile catheter, I believe that if a safe antiseptic can be liberally used to flush out and kill the bacteria by injecting the safe solution into these areas without harming the urethral and bladder membranes, many if not most UTIs can be prevented. A rather large syringe (containing about 30 ccs??) with a 6 inch long 14fr catheter attached to it can be used to kill most of the bacteria in the urethra that's waiting to take the ride via a sterile catheter into the bladder. Or a full length catheter to get all the way into the bladder could be used if a mild, safe and effective antiseptic solution could be developed and used on a daily basis to flush the bladder out with and kill the bacteria within.

    Quote Originally Posted by JGNI
    suppositories
    Quote Originally Posted by bob clark
    A supposority in a syringe....
    I was attempting to make a humorous analogy between the use of an inexpensive and easily "applied" suppository (and laxatives by inference) and some guy's newfangled injectable drug that in effect accomplishes the same purpose. But the injectable drug needs to saturate the whole body and its tissues, blood system and every organ in order to get to the effective amount of the drug to the needed cite of activity.

    You're a pharmacist. How about creating a mild, safe and effective antiseptic solution that can be used on a daily basis (or everytime someone catheterizes) to flush out the urethra/bladder and kill all the bacteria within it? I now use on a daily basis a 1.5% solution of hydrogen peroxide to flush my urethra out with but believe it to be a caustic chemical that can (probably will) harm my urethral lining. And perhaps aggravate my prostate and even my bladder. I also store my catheter in a bottle of it and insert it into my meatus/urethra/bladder dripping wet with this 1.5% HP solution. Help a fella out!
    "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria

  7. #7
    This medication combination is a long way from being FDA approved for this indication. It's interesting but could be a very burdensome approach to bowel care.

    RAB

  8. #8
    Hmm, a shot that empties the bowels in 10 minutes, with no supps or dig stim? Hell, sign me up now!

    My bowels are hell these days, my stomach is constantly sore, bloated and uncomfortable. My movements are sluggish and supps no longer have any effect. My consultant keeps mentioning colostomy, and yes I do know the benefits, but it's one surgery I've absolutely dreaded since long before I even had a SCI!


    A.
    C5/6 Tetraplegic, injured since 1990.

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