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Thread: Umbilical Cord Blood Stem Cells vs Embryonic Stem Cells

  1. #1
    Banned Faye's Avatar
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    Umbilical Cord Blood Stem Cells vs Embryonic Stem Cells

    Now that we know umbilical cord blood stem cells will be in plenty supply through the various Cord Blood Banks, it's important to note their role in the treatment of paralysis vs what has already been accomplished with ESC derived cells.

    To this effect I came across an interesting and timely post on a blog today:
    I'm sorry to let you know that the info about the Korean woman who was walking is out of date. Although she initially did well, the improvement failed, and a second treatment left her in significant pain in addition to her paralysis.
    There was however a recent study with rats showing that astrocytes derived from embryonic glial precursor cells ( a type of neural stem cell in the brain) significantly increased their mobility, reduced scarring, and allowed their nerves to regenerate.
    http://www.progressiveu.org/195127-s...#comment-15322

    "There’s far too much unthinking respect given to authority,” Molly Ivins explained; “What you need is sustained outrage.”
    Kerr, Keirstead, McDonald, Stice and Jun Yan courageously work on ESCR to Cure SCI.

    Divisiveness comes from not following Christopher Reeve's ESCR lead.
    Young does ASCR.
    [I]I do not tear down CRPA, I ONLY make peopl

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    Faye. I don’t like to put either this stem cell or this stem cell research approach up against each other, all research on all cells are important but I wish more people understood the importance for doing research on hESCs for finding treatments for neurodegenerative diseases and especially injuries such as SCI (and that is what I am concerned about). Well, anyway, that is how I think and conclude after reading and hearing about what some researchers say about the topic. To me the hESC research seems to have great potential when it comes to treatments for SCI, neither do I believe that blood stem cells have this potential, again based upon what I have read and heard. Due to this I feel more focus should have been given hESC research. If I am wrong here, please somebody enlighten me to come to other conclusions.
    Last edited by Leif; 04-29-2006 at 09:52 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Faye
    Now that we know umbilical cord blood stem cells will be in plenty supply through the various Cord Blood Banks, it's important to note their role in the treatment of paralysis vs what has already been accomplished with ESC derived cells.

    To this effect I came across an interesting and timely post on a blog today:

    http://www.progressiveu.org/195127-s...#comment-15322
    I am not sure that this is clear to people but the "embryonic" glial restricted precursor cells do not come from "embryonic stem cells" derived from blastocysts. They come from neural stem cells isolated from fetal brains.

    Wise.

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    I understood that from the other thread Wise, I was just commenting to the thread heading here.

    Seems like the cells are easier to manipulate, push, derive to find cells to use for CNS repair as closer they are to the origin i.e ESCs. And more difficult to use for CNS repair as they become more specialised i.e. blood stem cells. - So I still think the same as in my first post here. Which cells are best?
    Last edited by Leif; 04-29-2006 at 10:29 AM.

  5. #5

    Lightbulb

    Coming from someone who has actually had the Umbilical Cord stem cells, I feel that i am living proof that the Umbilical Cord blood is better than Embryonic. The least amount of side effects alone is a good reason. The ESC's have already been proven to grow tumors in addition to other problems (so I have read). While umbilical cord cells have shown to be successful with no side affects. Has anyone heard of any SCI success stories with ESC'S? I am all for the continued research in ESC as well as UCSC. I feel that they should be using what works now. Maybe i am not viewed as "living proof" because I am not "up walking" right now? If you ask me there will never be a "cure". It will take time and a lot of effort but, I will be walking sooner than later. I am still seeing improvements and it has only been 4 months, I had a major set back and I have not had intense therapy yet. To ask which cells are the best would only be fair if we had a SCI patient that had ESC's recently to compare. As for me, I am going with the ________? guess.....
    btw-The Korean lady actually inspired me to fight so hard to go to Korea for these cells. I inquired several times about her progress and it was confirmed that she had many other health problems and the second transplant had nothing to do with the infection in her spine. I am not one to gossip so I will leave it at that. Just think, I will be going for my second transplant possibly in November and then everyone will have a closer look at the results. i don't mind being the guinea pig.....

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Leif
    I understood that from the other thread Wise, I was just commenting to the thread heading here.

    Seems like the cells are easier to manipulate, push, derive to find cells to use for CNS repair as closer they are to the origin i.e ESCs. And more difficult to use for CNS repair as they become more specialised i.e. blood stem cells. - So I still think the same as in my first post here. Which cells are best?
    Leif, to date, several pieces of information are clear:

    1. Umbilical cord blood cells (or bone marrow cells) do not produce neurons when transplanted into adult central nervous system. Some studies suggest that they may restore function in rats but the mechanism of such improvements are not clear, particularly for chronic spinal cord injury. Some studies suggest that bone marrow and umbilical cord blood stem cells may be neuroprotective when transplanted early after spinal cord injury.

    2. Neural stem cells obtained either by differentating cells from embryonic stem cells or from fetal or adult neural stem cells can produce neurons in the brain and spinal cord, including motoneurons. When combined with other treatments, the motoneurons will send axons out the ventral roots to innervate muscles (Harper, et al. 2004).

    3. A number of studies, including a very recent one from Stephen Davies, have shown that certain types of astrocytes (called type 1 astrocytes) can provide a path for axonal regeneration in the spinal cord.

    Please note, although the Davies, et al. study did not frame the work in this way, it strongly argues against the role of Nogo and other myelin-associated growth inhibitors in the spinal cord. After all, Davies, et al. has strongly challenged the Nogo hypothesis. In their experiment, they did not address the issue of Nogo at all but they are clearly claiming that axons can not only regrow across the gap but reconnect to restore proprioceptive function in the rat.

    In my opinion, this will be the battle royale in the science of regeneration in the coming years. This is the shot across the bow of the Nogo ship. The ball is now in the tennis court of those who believe that Nogo is the primary obstacle to regeneration. By the way, this is not the first time that Stephen Davies has challenged the Nogo hypothesis. Stephen was a postdoctoral fellow with Jerry Silver who opposed the Nogo hypothesis and their early studies show that implanted dorsal root sensory ganglion neurons will ignore myelin-based growth inhibitors.

    From the viewpoint of people who have spinal cord injury and who may not care whose theory is correct, they should start paying attention to the details of clinical trials that are choosing to challenge or test the Nogo hypothesis in clinical trial. Novartis is now doing phase 1 studies of anti-Nogo antibodies. This may reach phase 2 and 3 trials in the coming few years. People should understand that some clinical trials will be testing the Nogo hypothesis in the coming years.

    Wise.

  7. #7
    Pinkshel,

    Thank you so much for posting and providing your viewpoints on CareCure. I just want to express my personal gratitude to you. Your story is one of the reasons why I think that it is important for us to do a rigorous clinical trial to show whether or not umbilical cord blood stem cells are beneficial in spinal cord injury.

    Hug to you. Sorry, by the way, I am still in a hugging mode after the W2W Rally in Washington DC.

    Wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkshel
    Coming from someone who has actually had the Umbilical Cord stem cells, I feel that i am living proof that the Umbilical Cord blood is better than Embryonic. The least amount of side effects alone is a good reason. The ESC's have already been proven to grow tumors in addition to other problems (so I have read). While umbilical cord cells have shown to be successful with no side affects. Has anyone heard of any SCI success stories with ESC'S? I am all for the continued research in ESC as well as UCSC. I feel that they should be using what works now. Maybe i am not viewed as "living proof" because I am not "up walking" right now? If you ask me there will never be a "cure". It will take time and a lot of effort but, I will be walking sooner than later. I am still seeing improvements and it has only been 4 months, I had a major set back and I have not had intense therapy yet. To ask which cells are the best would only be fair if we had a SCI patient that had ESC's recently to compare. As for me, I am going with the ________? guess.....
    btw-The Korean lady actually inspired me to fight so hard to go to Korea for these cells. I inquired several times about her progress and it was confirmed that she had many other health problems and the second transplant had nothing to do with the infection in her spine. I am not one to gossip so I will leave it at that. Just think, I will be going for my second transplant possibly in November and then everyone will have a closer look at the results. i don't mind being the guinea pig.....
    Last edited by Wise Young; 05-03-2006 at 09:53 PM.

  8. #8
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    Pinkshel,
    I wish you good luck in your struggle to get a better life and also with those experimental clinical treatments. But I was discussing basic research here when I wrote about which cell system to focus on. Because as we all know much more basic research is also needed to bring us a good and reliable treatment. Sorry for your set back and hopes it is just temporarily so you can be able to go to therapy to stimulate the improvements you are seeing. - I asked my question based upon this paper and you can also read more about it here. Good luck and a hug from me to although I’m not in the hugging mode today :-)

    Thanks Wise,
    It is interesting what you write about the Nogo inhibit protein, like some believes it is a key factor while other are pursuing other routes. I’m glad the research on spinal cord injuries for a cure have come this far, the researchers knows more and more about the mechanisms in the spinal cord and thereby they will have more options to study for a cure. Good.

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