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Thread: suicide

  1. #211
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    Windsor ON Canada
    I did not forget about Christine ... she starved herself to death.

    The one who drove off the dock used to be a member here.
    Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

  2. #212
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    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    In both Ohio and Indiana, Hospice sends a "comfort package" to new enrollees (at home/outpatient). That package contains 4 vials of 600 mg morphine and 90 Ativan pills. For able-bodied hospice patients it's a suicide package. Quads wouldn't be able to use it which is BS if you ask me.
    T3 complete since Sept 2015.

  3. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Mize View Post
    In both Ohio and Indiana, Hospice sends a "comfort package" to new enrollees (at home/outpatient). That package contains 4 vials of 600 mg morphine and 90 Ativan pills. For able-bodied hospice patients it's a suicide package. Quads wouldn't be able to use it which is BS if you ask me.
    And that is the problem, I can use Tor to search the dark web, find someone selling sodium nxxxxxxxx, order it from China, it gets delivered and then I need someone's help which immediately puts them at risk of prosecution. I can't even open the package never mind mix a cocktail of it and an anti nausea drug to drink it. Not that I have given it much thought or begged my wife to do it and people really think that they understand our limitations.

  4. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by lynnifer View Post
    I did not forget about Christine ... she starved herself to death.

    The one who drove off the dock used to be a member here.
    starvation is my plan. I've done five days with no problems, but I don't wanna go the distance with my mom still around. I imagine it only gets easier after the first week. Water is difficult but if someone is around to moisten your mouth it may be easier, I haven't tried yet. The whole ordeal may take a while but I'll be too out of it or comatose for the majority.

  5. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by lynnifer View Post
    Two quads I know killed themselves. One drove off the end of a dock and drowned. The other shot out in front of a bus. Yet a third was an accident (we think) as he was hit by a train .. his little caster wheel got caught in the tracks.

    It's not impossible.
    What level and Asia score was the quadriplegic that drove off the end of the dock? This is absolutely imperative (again your blanket statements just show you have no idea of all the complexities of being a quadriplegic, which is made even more obvious because... well obviously you are trying to prove some kind of a point therefore you should be considering all aspects! But evidently with all due respect because of your lack of first-hand experience you couldn’t even begin to comprehend the incommeasurable amount of details that are very imperative especially if you’re trying to make a point- It’s not like you’re strictly talking to a bunch of able-bodied or dare I say paraplegics Who are egregiously ignorant on the matter) , depending on the level and severity of the injury a quadriplegic may never have enough distal-privacy to ever accomplish something like that, and at the end of the day could just put them in a position where they put someone else at risk, and/or make it extremely difficult to near impossible to pursue other options like voluntary starvation within a institution: as now your mental state has been put on display for the able-bodied medical staff to judge upon ( also if you are not properly strapped into your wheelchair, which requires an able-bodied person [ not to mention the straps themselves, mine have been removed by my caregivers because they annoyed them, I have asked for them many times but they are lost] you could end up on your back keeping your head above just floating like a log for a little while until someone comes along jumping in after you). Not to mention they probably did it somewhere where a friend or family, or even a stranger is going to have to find them? But given the fact they are quadriplegic it’s highly likely family and/or friends are around this becomes even more obvious the higher/more severe the injury is (however if they are a low cervical injury and/or very incomplete they could drive themselves to a secluded area, where at least no family/friends would have to witness the extraction first hand). So even if the lesser of two evils is to occur and a stranger finds them, the friend/family member that took them wherever the stock is is going to see it with almost certainty. Again you really have not thought about this, yet you made an extremely pretentious statement in your conclusion: “it’s not impossible“.

    The second scenario makes me quiver with disgust... I have thought very thoroughly about this option, at one point even sitting on the side of a rural street with no lighting where people have no real reason to follow the speed limit-for hours. Ergo I don’t need to know the level of the quadriplegics who drove in front of a vehicle, they are scum plain and simple (as is any piece of shit that kills themselves involving someone else: deeply affecting - to potentially completely destroying Someone’s life that had nothing to do with Anything that happened to them. Especially considering that because of their disability, And lack of available methods; they probably had to think on and consider their options and this overall scenario for quite some time). Whether you are able bodied or disabled this is always something you should consider no matter how distraught you think you are! My uncle shot himself, nobody saw it coming! He went out with my other uncle and his wife the night before and had a great time with them, that morning he drove out and then took to his feet to walk to a hidden part of his property to end his life: most likely hopeful nobody had to see any of the carnage (unfortunately despite his efforts he was not fully successful As one person who was close to him did find his body, but for the most part it was contained other then That one exception [ it was his vehicle on the side of the road that gave it away, with more planning able-bodied people As well as paraplegics have the luxury of doing this properly in terms of containing the mess, to the ignorant...person... above that vehemently thinks someone being worried about the mess automatically means they are not really committed to suicide! Well that is just a byproduct of living a luxurious life, And the genesis streaming from utter ignorance! Again I go back to my comment about how being in such an entrapped And stagnant state we do not have the luxury of acting on impulse in our greatest moment of despair, blinded by emotion! Not only does this make this substantially more difficult requiring much more conviction (not to mention planning) but it also gives you a silver lining to try and do it properly in terms of concealment Or containment what have you, when you live a stagnant life and you Are seriously considering this route if you do not consider these aspects you are scum! Even more so than the able-bodied person that hangs themselves in a place; only for their family to find them in such a state completely unknowingly, Because at the end of the day that person almost certainly acted on impulse in a completely irrational state of mind ]).

    If it was as simple as You describe it then no Quadriplegic on this earth Would voluntarily resort to months of starvation, however they do and they have, and will continue to? Why... simple it is extremely difficult, technically not impossible for some, but in some scenarios actually in fact it is impossible to do it any other way ( and actually you can be prevented from starving yourself to death, as a high cervical complete injury you can be completely prevented from killing yourself very easily. In fact it’s highly likely happening Too many people around the world as we speak).

    Another Aspect that a paraplegic would fail to consider, is the fact that none of these are guaranteed or in fact anywhere near it (You may think that shooting or cutting yourself is not A guarantee but the fact is if you are fully committed, Plan it properly for no interruptions, know what you are doing and do it properly it most certainly is that’s the luxury of being able to use your arms and hands and of course sensory function). If you are a scum enough to drive in front of a vehicle and have another person kill you splattering your guts in front of them (scarring them indefinitely and potentially causing them to swerve off the road hurting/killing themselves and/or somebody else), the fact is that you could survive broken and probably farther disabled but nonetheless there is a myriad of ways you could survive, in fact a heavy metal wheelchair could be part of the survival... This is even more evident considering that A quadriplegic with limited or no hand/arm function obviously lacks the ability to be precise with positioning, timing, etc. Also as someone that has been hit by a truck Going 80 kph, sent hurdling 30 feet, the key to surviving it is not tensing up (obviously depending on The individual’s level of and type of spasticity) that’s quite an easy task for someone that is paralyzed. A train however is much more of a reliable option, though still not guaranteed it’s almost a certainty, again the quadriplegic needs distal-privacy (not always possible or a possessed luxury for some quadriplegics) and there are going to be people driving and others aboard the train, it is still an abhorrent act (However incontrovertibly going the route of driving in front of someone else’s automobile is far more disgusting, because the driver and their potential passengers are going to see everything, And again unlike a train they are not fixated on a track; ergo they could swerve hurting/killing themselves and/or someone else).

    Another aspect that needs to be considered is autonomic dysreflexia, which is most potent in the cervical injuries! And is of least concern in the lower injuries especially injuries below the T6 vertebrae! If you do manage to take pills, or drive in front of a car breaking bones what have you? You could end up surviving and causing yourself tremendous amount of pain through bodily damage, which in most quadriplegics life means autonomic dysreflexia. This could result in you having a stroke ( especially if you do something very severe and are highly susceptible to autonomic dysreflexia based on your individual injury), if it ends up being a bad stroke and you don’t have a DNR prepared well guess what you will never commit suicide, you will live a life where you drool in a corner of a room barely able to even choose what TV channel you watch with caregivers that treat you like a janitor treats an unwashed floor that he has dealt with a thousand times ( from first-hand experience when you can’t speak, the caregiving you receive is absolutely dismal: there are many reasons for this, but I think the main reasons are pretty self-explanatory you can’t direct your care, nor can you complain and most importantly you can’t cause a fuss or to put it colloquially tattletale on someone. And obviously they know this). Of course susceptibility to autonomic dysreflexia varies with every injury you can have two C4 injuries one that Rarely or even never gets autonomic dysreflexia even with a clogged catheter or something like that, while The other can get severe dysreflexia from a hangnail, or sitting on their testicles. I just speak from the position of someone that is highly, in fact extremely unusually susceptible to autonomic dysreflexia I experience it on a daily basis, sometimes multiple times a day. I know another quadriplegic that will never leave the hospital because of autonomic dysreflexia, he gets it for seemingly no reason at least something they can’t pick up and it causes him to have seizures and convulsions. Also a caveat, I’ve come to realize the harsh reality that just because you have a DNR that doesn’t mean a stroke will kill you, and you could live a very long time especially if your body manages to stabilize on it’s own after having one because at that point the doctors/family can easily usurp and start making the calls.
    Last edited by JamesMcM; 11-04-2017 at 05:14 AM.

  6. #216
    I could go on, but this is disturbingly verbose enough, I feel that the dogmatic ignorant charader’s Will disregard it because of its length and continue on spouting off. However for those who have travelled the distance, let me just provide you the options I have made for myself as someone that is committed to this cause (Unless my secondary settlement provides a surplus of money to which I can put to a protocol I have put together that I strongly believe will lead to substantial recovery, or - a fools hope - I win the lottery). But my secondary settlement may be too far away, and it’s not guaranteed to give me the amount of money I would need… The only real reason I’m still here is because I want to get my a B insurance settlement, so when I die it will go to spinal cord injury research I’ve already made the will just Still in legislative limbo. Don’t know how much longer I can stand this abhorrent existence... The only thing that keeps me going is I have thrown away all of my principles, and allowed search atrocious acts to be performed on me, been such a burden, miserable, that I feel obligated to at least let something come out of it. Is that mostly to satisfy my last dwindling shred of pride: yes, but I am also very committed to playing my part in the cause To eradicate this blight! And of course the other most prominent aspect ( of many others like family) That has slowed my decision is the fact that after nearly 6 years… Well to “Game of Thrones: people learn to love their chains. As disgusted as I am to say it I have - against my best effort’s, become accustomed to this life, However I still vehemently believe not enough to stop me And I continuously get “motivation” Through various ways… to keep me committed.

    1. (I lucky to be in one of the few places on earth that entertain assisted suicide) Already contacted dying with dignity, get in touch with a proper lawyer get in touch with two physicians plead my case to the court to get and exception and get assisted suicide that is now sort of legal in my country. However the Liberals lacked the spine to do it the way it was supposed to be done! And put far too many limitations… As to not offend The evidently incredibly fragile self-proclaimed disabled activists.
    2. Pay over $10,000 US to go to Switzerland, there are many reasons I don’t like this option: my mother will have to go to with me, if I do this I want to do it alone and even if I do do it alone in a room she will have to travel back without me there, despite the fact that she agrees with my decision I can’t help feel that that is too much to ask of my mother (despite how common it is). As well as the cost which takes away from my donations the entire reason I still dread on aside from a fools hope of winning a lawsuit or lottery to actually try and fight this disability through ridding myself of it.
    3. Buying a house with a pool, installing handicap automatic doors, getting a new wheelchair with all my straps, getting the house to my self for a few hours driving into the pool ( this one is pretty much unacceptable first and foremost obviously my mother, or a friend or family member is going to come back and find me at the bottom of the pool! And then there is the cost again waste of donation, the value of the house will drop after my act as well)
    4. Going into a group home, select nothing on the meal menu. Most plausible if the first two fail especially the first.

    Ultimately it comes down to this: able-bodied people as well as paraplegics or any disability that possesses good/decent hand function have a myriad of ways to end their life, just like they have so many more options when it comes to every facet of life; it’s really no different than any other aspect of life we just have far less options. The most practical option for quadriplegics to commit suicide is often starvation... this is horrific! The other very rare, and not very practical/realistic options are using an electric wheelchair to drive into/off something hazardous which really only consist of drowning, falling (extremely rare, there are almost always safety rails/balconies even a little 4 inch curb which will prevent this for a high complete quadriplegic) or in front of a heavy vehicle; unless you live near a volcano. THAT’S IT!!
    - horrifically brutal
    - unpractical
    - completely unrealistic for some who have no privacy
    - not guaranteed
    - could be very slow and/or is guaranteed to be slow
    - Could be an individuals main fear (I.e: many people can take pills to kill themselves and do, but many would never dare cut themselves, or they would shoot themselves but they would never hang themselves, or have an unrelenting fear of water so would never dare even consider drowning, etc)
    - Could deeply affect someone else’s life, or even get somebody else killed (I want to make this clear distinction: deeply affecting someone by the loss of taking your life whether you are a son, daughter, brother, sister, etc. is horrible but it is not remotely the same thing as driving your body unexpectedly and suddenly in front of some complete stranger‘s car to watch you ragdoll potentially rip into pieces right in front of their eyes, as they now live with; not only the image, but the fact that they technically and pretty much literally killed someone! it will be very difficult for a shrink to persuade them otherwise… Also before they hit you or after when they are completely in a state of shock [if it was a “successful suicide” They could potential he have all kinds of bodily fluids all over their windshield] they could crash and die and/or crash into somebody else resulting in the same outcome, maybe even leaving someone a quadriplegic in a sick twist of fate)
    - could be stopped by someone else ( which will likely lead you to become a ward which is a very different thing for someone that is completely dependent, with a severe disability and can’t get out of bed on their own, no need to even lock the door)
    - requires you to be conniving, plan, sneak around; or
    - requires you to have to convince your family to let you die
    - Due to physical limitations vast, VAST majority of times cannot be executed in a fit of hysteria when numbed by Raging emotions (unless the cosmos lineup and you happen to be near a lake, on top of the building, near a highway when everything piles up). This requires you to utilize one of the limited options provided above in a rather calm collected state of mind… Which - and rightfully so - often leads to procrastination ( for innumerable amount of reasons).
    - if like most quadriplegics you are Susceptible to autonomic dysreflexia you could very well end up being even more disabled
    - and many more details that I just can’t think of on top of my head.

    We cannot shoot ourselves, we cannot cut, we cannot hang, we cannot create a cocktail of drugs and ingest them In proper sequence, we cannot drink ourselves to death, We cannot use gases and make a set up: for example exhaust emittions from a car, we cannot get in our car and drive it into a tree going 100 km an hour, etc. Like getting out of bed, getting in bed, taking a shit, taking a shower, getting food, etc., etc., etc. any of these would require extensive help from someone! On the other hand able-bodied people can do all of these things completely independently, in the blink of an eye, in a fit of rage, or they could carefully set it up as to conceal it as much as possible. The same can be said for the vast majority of the cases for paraplegics! Shooting, and utilizing gases and if done properly drugs: for the first is the quickest and proven the brain cannot process any kind of pain ( if done properly, really you just have to know how to shoot The people that screw it up often have never utilized a gun throughout their life), where as the other two are said to be like falling asleep you can even feel a state of euphoria. Probably why these are the most common methods of suicide. Not voluntary starvation (not even on the radar), not jumping in front of a vehicle (which you have to be an absolute piece of shit to do, but shockingly in America as many as 500 people use trains to kill themselves [ not a significant number When looking at total suicides, the people usually don’t have access to a firearm and abuse substances and guess what it’s very common for the driver to suffer PTSD], however in Europe as many as 10% of suicides are by train, In terms of jumping in front of a car not significant number. pilots using their airplanes and people using trains, and people intentionally Getting in a car accident are more common [ no real statistics for people jumping in front of Automobiles]), not drowning (less than 2%)! Shocker I know!
    Last edited by JamesMcM; 11-04-2017 at 05:17 AM.

  7. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Moto2Mini View Post
    starvation is my plan. I've done five days with no problems, but I don't wanna go the distance with my mom still around. I imagine it only gets easier after the first week. Water is difficult but if someone is around to moisten your mouth it may be easier, I haven't tried yet. The whole ordeal may take a while but I'll be too out of it or comatose for the majority.
    Just so you understand it’s going to take you a minimum of two months to as long as over three, and in fact a doctor may have to find the sympathy to finish you off at some point ( which would not be documented or reported, however it was in a case that happened in Quebec a quadriplegic starved himself for over two months and a doctor finally helped end it, I guess it was not coming anytime soon). Never once have I read of a case where someone successfully committed To dehydration, I don’t think it’s possible to much of the body is...well water. However as horrific as it is to say, quadriplegics voluntarily starving themselves to death happens more often than we think; obviously insignificant compared to the general suicide, but still… The cases almost never get reported in the press it’s far too somber! The instance with Christine had a kind of story do it you know that the boyfriend be free, she was suffering etc. and the case in Quebec was a political downfall to the Liberals limitations on assisted suicide, He didn’t qualify so he did the only thing he could; however recently there have been some exceptions or so I hear which is really good news and only gives people like us the same rights as lesser disabilities or able-bodied people.

    Other things to consider are your bowels and bladder are you going to bother managing them, once you start to become incoherent caregivers could stop caring that would be incredibly painful, but realistically it would just be icing on top of the cake when you’re starving to death. However the main concern would be autonomic dysreflexia, if you are very susceptible to it even starving yourself could trigger it in a multitude of different ways. There is a possibility that you could have a stroke, and even if you have a DNR you could still survive (highly unlike especially if your body is Malnourished) but also if you are in a facility, they could take the fact of you having a stroke and intervene if you did not have a contingency plan and directly explains that you want no action even on the event of a stroke or any other complication. The thing is it gets tricky, if you do survive the stroke and they know it you are very easily considered mentally incompetent at that point family and even doctors could step in easily.

    I know I have no right to speak on your situation… But I can’t help myself, Should you go down that route I would implore you not to expose your mother to that!

  8. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by mrb View Post
    You need a reasonably large supply of most drugs capable of killing you. The problem for any high quad is you don't have them, your support workers do and have to account for you taking your meds especially controlled meds. Mine record every capsule or tablet I am given and every one I refuse.

    It is possible to control assisted suicide, both Dignitas and Lifecircle have strict conditions and you are assessed before the procedure. They allow paralysed people the criteria is based upon suffering not just terminal illness. You can use advance directives to prevent treatment, I've done that, my doctor prepared the directive after discussion with me, she confirmed that I have mental capacity at the time of signing and my wishes should be respected. It still comes down to what you are prepared to go through to die. Last year I had a pleural effusion and needed vent plus oxygen and constant suctioning. Thought that I could handle death but choking on my own phlegm was not easy to do. Had one night where my sats dropped into high 50's and thought that it would be the end but my body decided to fight. Sats came back up and it was back to choking on my own phlegm again. After days of this I agreed to go into hospital where my chest was drained. Not what I wanted but I couldn't face death like that. Weak.
    Not weak I have gone through the same thing, I tried to refuse care for quite some time I could blame the fact that my step mother was guilting me ( they eventually got me with the whole we will recover in two years still, their main problem was a X NHL player named Doug Smith very incomplete injury had surgery almost immediately, At a great hospital and almost fully recovered, of course at the time I didn’t understand any of the intricate factors so I fell for it) and pretty much projecting her own fear of death “do you really want to die, like to actually die“, and all that did play a factor ( especially the recovery bullshit From just hard daily physiotherapy… Fuck I was stupid)... but ultimately the pain, or should I say absolutely revolting feeling of taking crackling breaths Some very shallow and weak because of blockage, but you instinctively try to take harder breath’s which makes your body fight on basically subconsciously, obviously we don’t Consciously take ever breath. I thought I would just fall asleep eventually, but the thing is even when I wasn’t dealing with pneumonia And low oxygen levels, blocked Trachea, etc. I didn’t sleep, in fact even when I left the hospital after nine months I didn’t sleep properly for the first two years after injury, still have some trouble. Now I have severe spasticity tho. Anyways, I got My ability to speak back around 2 months post and off the vent around four-five months post , You have been vent dependent for years I can’t imagine it’s horrific I mean no offence but I vehemently disagree with keeping people alive like that unless they explicitly ask to live like that! I disagree with them keeping me alive as a C-5 complete ( any disability that is limited to dependency I don’t agree with Again unless the patient explicitly asked to be kept alive… After they are given a full explanation of what kind of life and what kind of procedures they are going to face for the rest of their life), so that should come as no surprise. Anyways man there is nothing weak About you receiving treatment from that, people don’t die that way voluntarily it’s only when they can’t do anything and it is Literally one of the worst ways to die ( I know a lot of doctors, friends with a lot of nurses, apparently it’s really hard to watch even when you are going gung ho trying to help ). Also something I didn’t realize at the time, even if I were to bear it out it’s quite possible for oxygen deprivation to just lead to brain damage and then comatose you. I mean think about it you lived like that with such slow stats gurgling on that disgusting lung excrement for days well being conscious, clearly it wasn’t bad enough to finish you off anytime soon.

    At the same time I understand why you feel that way, I feel the same about many decisions I‘ve made since my injury.I almost gag every time some ignorant idiot comes up to me telling me how strong or inspirational I am ( yeah come say that tomorrow morning when you?re sober and they are digging the shit out of my ass for two hours and I’m laying there like a fish out of water accepting it, morning routine of a true hero).
    Last edited by JamesMcM; 11-04-2017 at 05:53 AM.

  9. #219
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  10. #220
    Senior Member alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynnifer View Post
    Two quads I know killed themselves. One drove off the end of a dock and drowned. The other shot out in front of a bus. Yet a third was an accident (we think) as he was hit by a train .. his little caster wheel got caught in the tracks.

    It's not impossible.
    I wouldn't ride out in front of a bus or car, if I ever reached the point where I could overcome everything that would keep me from committing suicide. I wouldn't do that to the innocent driver of the vehicle, and besides, there's no guarantee that being hit by a bus or car will provide the desired result to a person seeking to be killed in that manner, rather than making their condition worse. Same reason rolling oneself down stairs is not the best idea.

    Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

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