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Thread: suicide

  1. #151

    Appreciate the response. And thanks, Sheri...ha, no one likes a stick in the mud but this site has people who live and understand it. Outside of here it seems best to mainly keep the misery to myself.

    Funk, saw that you have been injured for a long time and close to my age. You definitely seem educated on the topic and sound quite positive. I did have therapy while in the hosp/rehab for good measure and it lasted like 4 weeks. Ladder fall and my head was busted open in the back too. Luckily no brain injury. No drugs prescribed or recommended other than the usual pain meds etc.

    If depression is being unhappy or miserable with what life has permanently become, then I am definitely depressed. Feels like a natural response though. But that's just me; others do much better. 35 years and plenty of down moments, but nothing that wasn't fixable. This injury never stops though. It's always there. If there was even a small chance of getting my body back I would never stop working for it. But there isn't...the only thing there is keeping above my injury strong so I can move this limp body around.

    No sexual sensation has to be the worst for me. I mean, incontinence is bad. So is not hiking, skateboarding, playing drums, or pressing a clutch pedal. But having sensation and orgasms cut off, cold turkey, is like torture. Glad I did what I did for 20 something adult-years before this happened. But then again, comparing circumstances is the root of this struggle! Sometimes I wish I didn't know how satisfying and enjoyable it was. And that comparison list goes far beyond sex with an SCI. It's understandable why having an exit route greatly comforts people. At least you're not completely trapped.

  2. #152
    Senior Member alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheri View Post
    Lots of mixed feelings. Love Alan and Graybeard above just poking at it. We all think it. Sometimes we laugh, sometimes we cry. Sometimes we get a good night's sleep and have a better day. I'm a big believer in the right to choose. Mine is,"I wish a jet would fall on the house." Husband says,"Hey! What about me?!" For what it's worth, my daughter has been doing medical research for the past two years at an MIT/Harvard cooperative lab and she says the five-year horizon really is no longer bullshit. The expanse of computing power is now so extraordinary that things really can move much more quickly. I'm going to try to wait.
    Number one thing that that fuels depression ever worsening pains, and worsening sticking shoulder blade problems. The combination of all the crazy upper back sensations and the blade issue make moving my arms ever harder, seemingly from day to day. Annual MRIs show no change (I have two little syrinxes in my neck, but their size apparently stays the same, so there is no explanation for the worsening.) Then there's the rest of my body's pains. They are further aggravated by movement, riding over bumps, stopping or starting my chair, or my van when I am writing in it. I don't go far away from home when I do leave, which isn't often. I've got no life, and don't know how to do ADLs, despite having been injured for so long. I feel incompetent, because I'm so dependent. Aging isn't helping. Between pains and ADHD, I have concentration problems, so learning things like computers is very difficult. I'm a mess. Antidepressants haven't helped, nor, obviously, have pain doctors. I do see a shrink.
    Alan

    Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Denied2016 View Post

    Appreciate the response. And thanks, Sheri...ha, no one likes a stick in the mud but this site has people who live and understand it. Outside of here it seems best to mainly keep the misery to myself.

    Funk, saw that you have been injured for a long time and close to my age. You definitely seem educated on the topic and sound quite positive. I did have therapy while in the hosp/rehab for good measure and it lasted like 4 weeks. Ladder fall and my head was busted open in the back too. Luckily no brain injury. No drugs prescribed or recommended other than the usual pain meds etc.

    If depression is being unhappy or miserable with what life has permanently become, then I am definitely depressed. Feels like a natural response though. But that's just me; others do much better. 35 years and plenty of down moments, but nothing that wasn't fixable. This injury never stops though. It's always there. If there was even a small chance of getting my body back I would never stop working for it. But there isn't...the only thing there is keeping above my injury strong so I can move this limp body around.

    No sexual sensation has to be the worst for me. I mean, incontinence is bad. So is not hiking, skateboarding, playing drums, or pressing a clutch pedal. But having sensation and orgasms cut off, cold turkey, is like torture. Glad I did what I did for 20 something adult-years before this happened. But then again, comparing circumstances is the root of this struggle! Sometimes I wish I didn't know how satisfying and enjoyable it was. And that comparison list goes far beyond sex with an SCI. It's understandable why having an exit route greatly comforts people. At least you're not completely trapped.
    I was a 24 when I was injured. Believe me, I understand about the sexual function thing. Everyone you meet assumes you just "can't walk". I could care less about walking, that's far from the worst thing we've lost. That being said there is no going back. It sounds like you figure (like myself) it is extraordinarily unlikely that a cure for SCI will come in our lifetime. Therefore you've gotta decide what you're going to do today.

    Like I said, if you're not killing yourself tonight, you should see your primary care doctor on Monday and ask for a referral to a psychotherapist and a psychiatrist. 4 weeks of therapy isn't enough to get anything out of, and while you were in the hospital and feeling down it is impossible to determine if you are depressed or just adjusting to your new (shitty) life circumstances.

    Depression is not only feeling unhappy it is also feeling like you don't enjoy the things you still can do, change in appetite (increase or decrease) and associated weight gain/loss, trouble sleeping or sleeping too much, feeling fatigued or that you have less energy, feeling worthless, feeling guilty, trouble concentrating, recurring thoughts of death.

    If the above sounds familiar, you have depression. Regardless of the cause it is a treatable condition. Which doesn't mean the world is gonna be all roses and bunny rabbits after a week of prozac and a chat with a therapist, but things can get better.

    If you really, really hate the idea of seeing someone about depression, there are other things you can do. Presumably at T5 you still have arm function, you can get out and exercise, get out of the house and get some sun (depending on what the weather is like in your location), go and do stuff around people, volunteer, look for a job if your not working or a change in career to something more meaningful if you aren't happy with your current job, spend more time around friends and family, go to a local SCI support group, etc.

    And if the above sounds like a long list of super unrealistic things that you could never imagine bringing yourself to do, you're really depressed. See someone about it.

  4. #154
    Appreciate the detailed response, Funklab. Sorry to hear of it happening to you at such a young age. Sometimes I think to myself that it would be easier to accept the older I was when it happened. But that's just blowing smoke. It's a tragedy no matter what age, level, or situation it happens to. And ya, the problems go a lot further than legs that don't work.

    My thoughts have been a bit more collected lately. The overwhelming shock of, "oh my god this is really happening", has subsided a lot. It's pure reality now. But it's still a horrible place to exist from. I have no real experience with depression pre-injury. Had some breakups, a couple DUIs, some long hospital trips from injuries...but SCI is a life changing train wreck. Yeah, I'm definitely not comfortable with any of this. Chair still feels awkward. Bladder is all over the place. Still eat well, sleep well, and exercise. I make sure to get outside daily.

    Job as a contractor is gone tho. Was owner/operator for 10 years in construction. To try and keep it short, all my complaints come directly from being paralyzed. I've learned some patience and humility with the experience, but that pales in comparison to the losses. I don't think I can find happiness from a chair. Haven't had one truly satisfying moment in almost a year. I've accomplished a lot, am basically independent...but it doesn't reward me in any emotional way. I still hate it. I suppose that I always will...something I despise that I can't ever fix or change. I guess my attitude is the thing that most people say I can change. I suppose they're right too. But it's been almost a year and my attitude and heart still say, "fuck this version of a life".

  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Denied2016 View Post
    Appreciate the detailed response, Funklab. Sorry to hear of it happening to you at such a young age. Sometimes I think to myself that it would be easier to accept the older I was when it happened. But that's just blowing smoke. It's a tragedy no matter what age, level, or situation it happens to. And ya, the problems go a lot further than legs that don't work.

    My thoughts have been a bit more collected lately. The overwhelming shock of, "oh my god this is really happening", has subsided a lot. It's pure reality now. But it's still a horrible place to exist from. I have no real experience with depression pre-injury. Had some breakups, a couple DUIs, some long hospital trips from injuries...but SCI is a life changing train wreck. Yeah, I'm definitely not comfortable with any of this. Chair still feels awkward. Bladder is all over the place. Still eat well, sleep well, and exercise. I make sure to get outside daily.

    Job as a contractor is gone tho. Was owner/operator for 10 years in construction. To try and keep it short, all my complaints come directly from being paralyzed. I've learned some patience and humility with the experience, but that pales in comparison to the losses. I don't think I can find happiness from a chair. Haven't had one truly satisfying moment in almost a year. I've accomplished a lot, am basically independent...but it doesn't reward me in any emotional way. I still hate it. I suppose that I always will...something I despise that I can't ever fix or change. I guess my attitude is the thing that most people say I can change. I suppose they're right too. But it's been almost a year and my attitude and heart still say, "fuck this version of a life".
    Having gone through rehab with people in different stages of life and met some more people with new SCIs after my injury, I think if anything this injury is harder if you are older. If you're older you're more likely to have a career to lose or a family you feel like you've let down or some savings that SCI has a way of making disappear really quickly. But certainly it's a horrible thing to happen to anybody at any age.

    I see where you're coming from. You're suffering, we all are. But in your response I don't see a valid excuse to not seek help to alleviate the suffering you're going through. Maybe you feel like you deserve to feel like shit.

  6. #156
    Deserve? Na...but I do feel I have a valid reason to

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Denied2016 View Post
    This injury never stops though. It's always there. If there was even a small chance of getting my body back I would never stop working for it. But there isn't...the only thing there is keeping above my injury strong so I can move this limp body around.
    Denied, there are now therapies that restore function, a big difference from when I was injured 21 years ago.

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Denied2016 View Post
    Deserve? Na...but I do feel I have a valid reason to
    You've got a valid reason to feel like crap.

    What I didn't hear in your response was a valid reason not to try and feel better.

  9. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Denied2016 View Post
    Absolutely. The majority of people adapt and find happiness. Or present that they do. I'm just saying that paralysis is a justifiable reason to feel like shit...or to question whether or not it's worth putting up with. Suicide just takes a lot of balls/nerve. If there was an on/off-switch, I think we would have lost a lot more people. I've read of some who have wished they were dead for 30 years... And others who "do everything able bodied people do". Haha...Guess its about perspective
    Adapt, cope etc. all sound cute, they make sense for injuries that have what I categorize as the three necessities to live: pleasure, dignity and freedom.

    Pleasure of coarse doesn't just mean sexual, but that is a big part of it and there's nothing taboo about it sexual experiences, pleasures and release are very important for human existence and happiness ( for many life is meaningless without sex, if you actually break it down a lot of things throughout our life are directly or indirectly driven by the goal of attracting a mate. Soldiers have been known to tell their comrades before hand that if they ever lose their genitals to just let them die... which is more than reasonable). Pleasure also includes sensation, interacting with the world hugging someone and knowing that your bodies are connected, feeling the difference between grass and sand, touching and registering the incommensurable amount of different textures out there. Literally just be ability to know your body is still connected and part of this world, not just some lifeless empty vessel.

    Dignity, some argue this is a matter of perspective. I would argue that if you find having your anus picked to remove the faeces dignified you are nothing more then delusional; plain and simple. And there is a major difference between handling undignified procedures independently in privacy, compared to having others work on you like some kind of dead useless decrepit body. In fact that is a key difference.

    Freedom! I could fill an entire book on this one. You want something you get it, you want to use something you use it, tired; you lay down, you want to go somewhere you go there- with almost instantaneous direction; all of which done without any kind of hesitation especially in the form of being predicated on assistance . Sure; within our society there are hurdles in the way of "true freedom" in the broad sense by way of financials ( for the able-bodied in most cases easily overcomable). But no one especially around the age of 20 should have to abide by a bedtime permanently, shower time, bowel time, bladder time, remain trapped in bed until time to get up, be thirsty and see a cup of water only 3 feet away- but alas you must remain thirsty and wait for assistance! And that's the key difference there independence versus dependence. Of course it comes in many different varieties and severities, but just because you accomplish something almost entirely through the efforts and collaboration of others does not constitute independence or freedom? At least not in my eyes, my expectations to define independence are much higher.

    I truly am at my wits end paying anywhere from $48,000-$76,000 a year to people; mostly family to look after my pathetic self and listen to them; every now and then go on about how much they sacrifice. Especially when they convinced ( basically to the point of the begging) me not to end it all in acute care. I do not appreciate anyone that hands me a glass of water, I do not appreciate anyone who picks my ass,gets me out of bed with a hoyer lift, gets the soap tween my legs etc. It disgusts me every time I have to ask for help, it reminds me of how pathetic I am each and every time, and makes my skin crawl, but guess what I do it a lot because that's literally existential to this existence?when they do the worst of it it completely stripped me of my humanity and my self-respect not to mention my self-identity as in honour and principal ( also causes quite a bit of pain through many different ways triggering spasticity or autonomic dysreflexia for example, however dangerous and painful these are there nothing in comparison to the latter ). I am absolutely sick of people thinking they are doing me a favour, but alas I am at their mercy? and that constant reality ( that they love to remind me of even if unconsciously) only exasperates my growing hatred for myself and this existence. My gratitude extends as far as the check, if people honestly expect me to go please and thank you 50 times a day, or praise them for their efforts on cleaning my bowels ? Well let's just say the thought of that repulses me, and for me as an individual is not even remotely realistic.

    Adapting or coping are for the conditions that have those three necessities. The most severe spinal injuries C5-1 Asia A The term adopting or coping repulses me. I seen it, I had multiple disabled people come up to me telling me "it took me five years" at the time being only six months injured it was just "get the fuck away from me" but now I realize ? as I head to five years post myself what that truly meant; even if they didn't realized it. That was the time period in which it took their mind to break down, literally no different than Stockholm syndrome or institutionalization; lock a person up in chains long enough The majority of them will come to love the chains. Even within myself I have felt my mind attempting to normalize everything no matter how pathetic, repulsive or disgusting. In fact it's because of that harsh reality of my mind adapting to this whether I like it or not, that led me to creating the three necessities or basically the bare minimum's for life. Before that it was all or nothing, recover everything so I could get back to kickboxing and becoming a primary specimen lift the most, jump to the highest, run the fastest or at least try my damnedest and stand with the other prime specimens in solidarity and unbelievably luxurious freedom. A luxury in which almost certainly no one truly understands or appreciates, in terms of those that have it; that includes the lesser disabled.

    In short with these kind of conditions of complete dependence I believe the words adapting or coping should be thrown away, I have had numerous quadriplegics try to convince me how great their life is ( often regurgitating to the point of nauseam; rather mundane trivial generic accomplishment) and I have yet to see one who lived a actual life by my expectations ( which should mean nothing to other people unless they're extremely fragile), I don't give a fuck if that's offensive. I know what they had to do behind closed doors, I know how they got to where they went and how they did what they did and who actually did it!. Point is I refuse to drop my expectations of life just because I bumped my spinal cord: shitting oneself is now not a normality it is still disgusting pathetic and undignified, making a grilled cheese with "adaptive equipment" is not a accomplishment it is a trivial feat beneath the term "accomplishment" if you consider shitting yourself with normality or making grilled cheese ( or any other kind of trivial task) an accomplishment you are only insulting yourself. When your own resilience, strength, determination, will power etc. becomes a irrelevance because your entire being hinges on the efforts and contributions of others you cannot be strong, you can only be dependent and acceptive , In other words submissive. My definition of strength for fortitude does not remotely consist of anything even slightly associated with sitting around waiting for assistance, in fact that kind of thing would be more allocated toward the opposite of strange.

    The primary focus of everyone with a severe spinal cord injury should be to eradicated such an abhorrent and deplorable condition from affecting anyone else, even if it won't benefit yourself! I could not feel stronger about that. But it is because of our failure, and our constant need to do everything in our power to "cope" that we lose sight of or never see that most noblest of causes! Therefore high quadriplegia continues to be a blight on humanity, and we The afflicted are the most guilty of negligence of the worst kind.
    Last edited by JamesMcM; 03-17-2017 at 03:16 AM.

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by funklab View Post
    Having gone through rehab with people in different stages of life and met some more people with new SCIs after my injury, I think if anything this injury is harder if you are older. If you're older you're more likely to have a career to lose or a family you feel like you've let down or some savings that SCI has a way of making disappear really quickly. But certainly it's a horrible thing to happen to anybody at any age.

    I see where you're coming from. You're suffering, we all are. But in your response I don't see a valid excuse to not seek help to alleviate the suffering you're going through. Maybe you feel like you deserve to feel like shit.
    Let me guess antidepressants or talking to a shrink... or maybe peer support HA!! Here's the thing there are certain individual personalities that are just not collaboratable with dependency! And to be honest, although I suffer intensively, i'am goddamn happy that I happened to be one of those individuals, The thought of accommodating such a state sicken me. Until there are actual effective treatments to actually return function, for many there is no help!

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