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Thread: Large Kidney & Bladder Stones [Gabapentin]

  1. #1

    Talking Large Kidney & Bladder Stones [Gabapentin]

    Last year, 4-5 months ago, I finally found out why I had blood [kinda knew] in my urine. The VA started with a ultrasound, then x-rays and CT scans. Before latter ones though they did a Cystostopy. Monitor showed 2 [1"] smooth white marble looking stones the size of a 5cc foley balloon in my bladder. [have most of that and will sell it on Ebay soon ]

    Then more tests of course over 3 month period. Right Kidney had a LOT of stones with some large ones as well that took up half of my kidney plus. Hell, mine give the phrase "Supersize Me" a whole new meaning.

    Anyway, ended up [finally] getting them out via lithrotipsy [spell?] surgery. Turns out kidney one was 3+ cm plus ton of smaller ones. They got almost all out too but will go the herbal route to get rid of rest as I'm not going through it again. That pertains to staying at the VA and nursing care which was a nightmare, not their doctors.

    What brought it on? My guess is the Gabantin. Only thing that actually messes with ones hormones and glands and puts them out of whack to do what it does. It kills my nerve pain by 50% with added ibuprofen but will be getting off them as soon as possible. Not worth to me. Anyone else developed stones and is on Gaba??

    Michael

  2. #2
    We've only been using Gabapentin at my center (also in the VA) for about 5 years. We have never had any people with kidney stones attributed to the gabapentin. They should have done chemical and microbiological assessments of the stones at the medical center. That would give you an idea about what contributed to the stones. Generally they are caused either by too much calcium in the blood stream or by bacteria in the kidney and bladder. Also, you might want to take up the problems you had with your stay at a VA with the Paralyzed Veterans of America, so that the problem can be corrected.

    RAB

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by SCI-Nurse
    We've only been using Gabapentin at my center (also in the VA) for about 5 years. We have never had any people with kidney stones attributed to the gabapentin. They should have done chemical and microbiological assessments of the stones at the medical center. That would give you an idea about what contributed to the stones. Generally they are caused either by too much calcium in the blood stream or by bacteria in the kidney and bladder. Also, you might want to take up the problems you had with your stay at a VA with the Paralyzed Veterans of America, so that the problem can be corrected.

    RAB
    Remote, I just did a literature search and was not able to find any report of kidney stones associated with gabapentin. It is likely to be due to something else. Wise.

  4. #4
    Well, I go by what did I change or do different that could be the cause. Only thing that was different was starting the gaba. Everything else in my life was the same pretty much. Guess I'll see what the results will be soon. Labs should be done this week as far as the bladder and kidney stones not to mention the black puzz that got drained when they put the guide wires in. Will see.

    Yes Nurse.. I am/will be taking it up with the PVA as soon as I have some time. It's only a handful of nurses that made things bad but still not right.

    Michael

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Remote
    Well, I go by what did I change or do different that could be the cause. Only thing that was different was starting the gaba. Everything else in my life was the same pretty much. Guess I'll see what the results will be soon. Labs should be done this week as far as the bladder and kidney stones not to mention the black puzz that got drained when they put the guide wires in. Will see.

    Yes Nurse.. I am/will be taking it up with the PVA as soon as I have some time. It's only a handful of nurses that made things bad but still not right.

    Michael
    How long have you been on gabapentin? As far as I know it takes quite awhile to develop large 1 inch bladder stones and "LOTS" of kidney stones, some of which were quite large.

    Don't be so quick to place the blame on the gabapentin. The Nurse and Doctor here told you that the stones are more than likely being caused by something else. Some people are just prone to them.

    Thank you Nurse RAB and Doctor Young for taking your valuable time trying to help me.
    "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." - Philo of Alexandria

  6. #6
    Wow, I felt as though I read my own story. I had the same procedure and it's not been fun. The had to leave the stint (in my kidney) in another two weeks because it was too cloudy to extract it. I asked my urollogist about what could have caused all the stones...and mentioned the neurontin and baclofen as wel as the ibprophen. Of those three meds, he was much more concerned with th ib....not in causing stones but in its affects on the kidney....he told be to stay off the ib. As far as the cause of the stones....he said given all the studies, they really don't have quantifiable list of things that do or don't cause them. This was at The Medical College of Ohio...and they have an excellant rep....so, sorry I'm not much help.....but I feel your pain :-) One thing, it sure feels as though the stint, the ongoing infection, and the spinal I had affected my neuropathic pain. Anyway, they're going to surgically remove the stint on Tues. Best of luck to you

  7. #7
    Remote,

    Kidney stones are quite common in people with spinal cord injury whether they take gabapentin or not. As Bob Clarke pointed out, stones take a while to develop.

    One of the most common causes of kidney stones is the presence of ureteral reflux (i.e. urine going backward into the ureters leading to the kidney) and infection. A study by Hall, et al. (1989) examined 898 SCI patients and found that 14.8% had stones. In those patients that had ureteral reflux, 37.7% had stones in the kidney with reflux. Only 10.6% of kidneys without reflux developed stones.

    Reflux occurs in people with bladder spasticity. The spastic bladder contracts but pressure increases in the bladder result in urine going up the ureters. The ureters normally have a valve that stops reflux but if the valves are not working or the bladder pressure if very high, the urine will go back into the kidney. Therefore, if you hav poorly controlled bladder spasticity, it is important that this be corrected.

    Indwelling catheters increase the incidence of infections and infections tend to produce stones in the kidney. Therefore, it is critical that infections be minimized. Stones also can result from low urine flow. One way of reducing stone formation is to drink plenty of fluids. This will not only reduce stone formation but decrease the likelihood of infections. Almost everybody has some approach they prefer for minimizing infections and stones.

    Wise.

    Urology. 1989 Sep;34(3):126-8. Related Articles, Links
    Renal calculi in spinal cord-injured patient: association with reflux, bladder stones, and foley catheter drainage.
    Hall MK, Hackler RH, Zampieri TA, Zampieri JB.
    Urology Section, Veterans Administration Medical Center, Richmond, Virginia.

    Renal units associated with reflux in the spinal cord-injured (SCI) patient have a greater incidence of kidney stones developing than in the nonrefluxing units. It is logical to assume that SCI patients with persistent reflux and bladder stones treated with cystolitholapaxy would be at even higher risk for kidney stones developing. Of the 898 SCI patients studied (1,793 renal units), in 14.8 percent kidney stones developed. Kidney stones occurred in 161 of 1,517 (10.6%) of nonrefluxing units. Of the 276 renal units with reflux, in 104 (37.7%) an ipsilateral stone developed. Of the 198 patients in whom a kidney stone formed, 56.6 percent managed their bladder with a Foley catheter whereas only 28 percent of 700 patients in whom a stone did not form used a Foley catheter. On evaluating 261 patients (520 renal units) with bladder stones treated with cystolitholapaxy, 62.5 percent of these patients were managed with a Foley catheter. The association between cystolitholapaxy treatment, reflux, and the formation of kidney stones was (1) in 22 of 111 (19.8%) refluxing units, an ipsilateral stone formed; (2) in 70 of 409 (17.1%) units that were nonrefluxing, stones developed; and (3) overall, in 92 (17.7%) renal units, kidney stone developed. We concluded that kidney stone development is significantly increased in the SCI patient with reflux and/or Foley catheter drainage. From these data cystolitholapaxy treatment in the presence of reflux does not appear to increase the development of kidney stones.

    PMID: 2789449 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Remote
    They got almost all out too but will go the herbal route to get rid of rest as I'm not going through it again.
    What is the herbal route to get rid of kidney stones?

  9. #9
    Stones are very common in people with SCI, esp. in those who use indwelling catheters or have high residuals and reflux with intermittent cath or condom catheters. We also see them often in urinary diversion patients.

    They need to be removed. ESWL is one option for this for some stones, but not all of them. Some require surgery to remove. I know of no legitimate herbal remedy, and meanwhile the stones cause not only recurrent infection, but can damage and even destroy the kidney if left in place.

    (KLD)

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    I have seen the terrible agony kidney stones can put a person through without having SCI. Both my grandmother(RIP), and uncle (mother & son) had many bouts with kidney stones. My grandmom, lost 1/2 of one of her kidney when a large stone became lodged in it. My dad has only had one kidney stone so far, but I have been told that my family history puts me at a even higher risk of having kidney and bladder stones.
    I've been lucky so far, almost 13 yrs post injury and I haven't had any stones so far. Sometimes I do get a sandy/grit guild up in my foley, but that has been a rare thing for me. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my luck holds out.
    Linda H.

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