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Thread: Time for stem cell research

  1. #31
    Banned Faye's Avatar
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    Why Do ALL ADVOCACY Groups WARN AGAINST ALL DECOY BILLS??

    Dr. Young, thank you for putting so much time into looking into the details of the DECOY bills. However you still have not answered the question as repeated in the title of this post......

    Obviously the reason they are even termed DECOY biils by CRF and other ADVOCACY orgs, is because they ARE INTENDED to drain support from HR 810.

    For the readers of CC, let me repeat:

    1. Decoy bills will sap support from HR810 of those who are still sitting on the fence. To their constituents they can pretend they care about cures by voting for "A" Stem Cell Research Bill, no matter how farfetched or devoid of practical application it is.

    2. Once we pass a so called decoy bill, there will be an excuse not to address the ESCR issue for another 4 years.

    No amount of looking into the detail of the decoy bills is going to negate 1. and 2.

    Truth is that it's no longer about the "ethics" issue to STOP ESCR, it NOW is just about DELAY.( through often quasi alternatives to ESCR)

    DELAY is just as BAD.

    "There’s far too much unthinking respect given to authority,” Molly Ivins explained; “What you need is sustained outrage.”
    Kerr, Keirstead, McDonald, Stice and Jun Yan courageously work on ESCR to Cure SCI.

    Divisiveness comes from not following Christopher Reeve's ESCR lead.
    Young does ASCR.
    [I]I do not tear down CRPA, I ONLY make peopl

  2. #32
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    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1300667.shtml

    Steven,

    "Robert George of the president’s bioethics council says the embryos, often discarded when no longer used to create families, shouldn’t be destroyed for any reason because they represent human life at its earliest stage".

  3. #33

    dancing around science for politics - decoy bills

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20...tion/1564228_1

    extracts:

    So a lot of prominent Republican politicians tip their hat to the "pro-life" crowd by backing so-called "anti-cloning" bills that purport to restrict mad science but that are really written to prevent promising research projects from going forward.
    The cloning critics seek to energize the faithful by backing these silly bills, while at the same time hoping that no one in the broader electorate will notice.

    When the issue does become the fodder for a general election campaign, however, all bets are off as, suddenly, stem-cell research critics become stem-cell research advocates.

    That's what has happened in Missouri, where Republican U.S. Senator Jim Talent has a long and ugly record as an outspoken advocate for the sort of restrictions on stem-cell research that are favored by the anti-choice movement.

    Talent's tortured speech announcing his new stance, in which he announced that he had come across "an ethically untroubling way" for obtaining embryonic stem cells that can be used in research, was an attempt to blunt McCaskill's appeal. But, as McCaskill noted, Talent still supports many restrictions on stem-cell research.

  4. #34

    Stem-Cell Hypocrisy

    The Nation -- How serious are Republican -- and some Democratic -- politicians who go on and on about the need to restrict embryonic stem-cell research?
    Not very.
    Stem cell research, which scientists believe holds the promise of cures or treatments for everything from diabetes to Alzheimer's disease, is popular with the American people. But it is unpopular with the faction of the anti-choice movement that tends to be most active in Republican primaries. So a lot of prominent Republican politicians tip their hat to the "pro-life" crowd by backing so-called "anti-cloning" bills that purport to restrict mad science but that are really written to prevent promising research projects from going forward.
    The cloning critics seek to energize the faithful by backing these silly bills, while at the same time hoping that no one in the broader electorate will notice...........
    "Unfortunately," McCaskill says of Talent, "like too many politicians, he's trying to hide his opposition by dancing around science for politics. In a 30-minute long speech chock full of scientific jargon, he attempted to obfuscate his position and distract Missourians from the real issue: why does he think we should criminalize research instead of providing hope and cures for our people?"
    McCaskill adds, with the directness that voters should expect of candidates on these issues: "I don't need 30 minutes or even 30 seconds to tell you where I stand. I support hope, I support science, and I support lifesaving cures. Because desperately ill Missourians deserve hope, not political cover -- and scientists deserve support, not handcuffs."
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20060227/cm_thenation/1564228&printer=1;_ylt=AiwMS8b15FZSW1flt_K1mrQ__8Q F;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE--
    Don't ignore the Reeve Legacy, Remember he and Dana supported open research and fought hard for ESCR

    StemCellBattles

    Support H.R. 810

  5. #35
    Banned Faye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leif
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1300667.shtml

    Steven,

    "Robert George of the president’s bioethics council says the embryos, often discarded when no longer used to create families, shouldn’t be destroyed for any reason because they represent human life at its earliest stage".
    Yup, Steven's point exactly...........why else do you think Ed Bradley's powerful TV Segment on 60 Minutes was met with such dismay ( sadness) by Steven

    "There’s far too much unthinking respect given to authority,” Molly Ivins explained; “What you need is sustained outrage.”
    Kerr, Keirstead, McDonald, Stice and Jun Yan courageously work on ESCR to Cure SCI.

    Divisiveness comes from not following Christopher Reeve's ESCR lead.
    Young does ASCR.
    [I]I do not tear down CRPA, I ONLY make peopl

  6. #36
    Leif, I agree with Robert George in principle -- human life should not be destroyed. However, they are going to be destroyed, irrespective of what I or anyone want.

    I disagree with Robert George on his stance here, though. The embryos' deaths are certain, unless someone has a plan I am unaware of. The first goal should be to prevent their destruction, but in the absence of a viable plan, I am okay with parents donating their excess, unused embryos to research.
    Last edited by Steven Edwards; 02-27-2006 at 11:37 AM.
    ...it's worse than we thought. it turns out the people at the white house are not secret muslims, they're nerds.

  7. #37
    Wise, thank you for your insightful comments.

    To be fair, I have said before that 810 -- as currently written -- is a bad bill, primarily due to a lack of newly appropriated funds.

    I support the intent of 810, but I do not actively lobby for its passage. Based on Frist's comments, I believe he is intending to use 810 as a gateway to ban private funding of SCNT, either outright or through a moratorium.

    To the readers of CareCure, let me make one thing clear: You are all intelligent people and I trust you to make your own decisions, whether or not they are in line with mine.

    I will never tell you what to think. I will provide my opinions, along with my reasoning and supporting evidence, for you to use, or not use, at your discretion.

    Faye is right, in general terms, of the two points she makes. Once the stem cell bills are voted on, it will be a few years before they are seriously discussed again.

    In my opinion, 810 will come bundled with a ban on SCNT and no increase in federal funding of ESC research.

    In my opinion, S.1557/HR.3144 will not have an attached ban on private funding for SCNT, and it will increase federal funding of ESC research.

    Of these bills, I only actively support the second one.

    As I said before, I trust you to make your own decision.
    ...it's worse than we thought. it turns out the people at the white house are not secret muslims, they're nerds.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Edwards
    Leif, I agree with Robert George in principle -- human life should not be destroyed. However, they are going to be destroyed, irrespective of what I or anyone want.

    I disagree with Robert George on his stance here, though. The embryos' deaths are certain, unless someone has a plan I am unaware of. The first goal should be to prevent their destruction, but in the absence of a viable plan, I am okay with parents donating their excess, unused embryos to research.
    I feel the first goal should be to use those CELLS for finding treatments and cures for illnesses and injuries. I have never seen human embryonic cells before than on 60 Minutes yesterday, and I could definitely not see any humans in those laboratory cups. But that was just me I guess.

  9. #39
    Leif, those cells -- the ESCs -- were not human life.
    ...it's worse than we thought. it turns out the people at the white house are not secret muslims, they're nerds.

  10. #40
    Banned Faye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Edwards
    Wise, thank you for your insightful comments.

    To be fair, I have said before that 810 -- as currently written -- is a bad bill, primarily due to a lack of newly appropriated funds.

    I support the intent of 810, but I do not actively lobby for its passage.....
    See Dr. Young, Steven is NOT strongly in support of HR810, like you claimed.

    OUR main goal is to see that HR810 is NOT AMENDED.

    This can be done by EDUCATING THE SENATORS ON SCNT, like Don Reed of Stem Cell Battles strongly urges.

    That HR 810 is not funded doesn't matter to most except may be some of the ASCR scientists like yourself.

    Just having a mandate for federal funding of ESCR will increase private investments for ESCR, even in the absence of any real federal funding for ESCR.

    No longer will private investors feel they are treading in quasi-illegal territory.

    "There’s far too much unthinking respect given to authority,” Molly Ivins explained; “What you need is sustained outrage.”
    Kerr, Keirstead, McDonald, Stice and Jun Yan courageously work on ESCR to Cure SCI.

    Divisiveness comes from not following Christopher Reeve's ESCR lead.
    Young does ASCR.
    [I]I do not tear down CRPA, I ONLY make peopl

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