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Thread: Dr Wise??Grooves and channels,skull

  1. #1

    Unhappy Dr Wise??Grooves and channels,skull

    i wasn't sure just where in the heck to actually pose this question but since this is also causing me pain i figured this may be a possible spot.

    i REALLY need help in trying to find ANY reasonable explanation for what is going on with my skull.first of all i sufferd some really nasty spinal nerve and tract damage and also severely damaged my sympathetic nervous system while during a surgery that was done on the inside of my spinal cord for removal of a cavernous hemangioma.
    This has lead to some of the most bizarre,unbelievable unimaginable types of pain syndromes and other freaky pain and really bizarre responses to really simple things like when i had an aspiration of fluid and cort injection into my RSD knee,it resulted in the most violent explosion from hell way deep into my knee.there are many things going on with all of my body systems that are either totally backwards now or really significantly altered.I also suffer from central pain in my L arm on up through and over both shoulder blades.well, I also had the misfortune of actully finding a new suprise inside of my brain this past sept.a lovely aneurysm was found indie the L superior cerebellar artery.luckily it was eventually(after all kinds of testing)to be I had that procedure done in nov and it went really well,except duing the post op (healing) period I was getting these headaches that started in just one very particular spot on the L side of my head.well as these slowly faded(I was told that these headaches were normal)a new 'type' seemed to start to these actually started at that same spot as the others but then would go backwards kind of over the top of my skull on down thru the base into the L side of the c spine and into and under the shoulder blade.after a while I was also getting tons of those trigger point wads?well i evetually went to see my pM for TP injections.these headaches,i am assuming were triggered by the way they may have just transferred me unconcious during the coiling procedure and since my c spine is also kind of a mess anyway,they probably just really irritated the c spine nerves and the result was the trigger points developing,which really makes sense.

    now heres the really bizarre part that no one can seem to tell me the "whys' for.Three days post tp injections,this was also the first day I actually felt the wads and everything just kinda 'let go"? and felt some really good relief.well,during the course of that day,i was rubbing the side of my head and noticed these rather deep "grooves"?or channels? had just suddenly appeared,they were actually on both sides of my head but much more pronounced on the L side.the back/top of my head also is now kinda 'flattenedout"? that normal curve is now flat and if you push the skin back and forth over it,you can feel ridges and depressions actually into the skull itself.the areas of the grooves are all from just behind the ears and run from the top on down vertically and at first,had stopped just kinda above that mastoid area?well now,over the past month and a half,i now have them in the mastoid area,but these actually run more hoizontally.

    honestly,this is definitely by far the most freaky thing yet to have happen since my sci,and believe me,i have had a TON of wierd.but these area ctually very deep channels into the actual skull and now the entire back occipital area is now affected as well.It is actually like the area from just behind my ears on back has been changing and shifting and just undergoing this rather extensive remodling.i have been waiting like weeks here to hear anything back from my NSs nurse,when I called the weeks before christmas,i was told that he would be gone til mid jan.well still,after leaving two messages,nothing.
    This IS giving me pain off and on but not really a severe type of pain and it is not constant,it comes and goes and every once in a while,it get these 'twinges" of pretty moderate to severe pain but they really are there and gone really quickly so they really don't need actual treatment with anything.
    I got an x ray done at my primarys two weeks ago and according to the rad that read my fims,well,he stated that my skull 'looked' normal.I don't know if my doc had sent any info to this guy along with the films that stated this was not the usual shape of my skull and all the depressions he was seeing were actually all brand new or what,but honestly,this is as far from 'normal" as you can get.
    my pain doc who did the TPs with over thirty years of experience has told me he has never ever seen anything like this before.I am pretty sure that this has to have something to do with the actual TPs he did on me.he did them from the shoulder blade on up thru the c spine and did a bunch at the base of the L side of my skull.The whole L side of my head was totally solidly numb for about at least 6 to 7 hours,and was still numb when I had went o bed that first night.This was despite the fact that all the other areas had returned to normal wayy before also seems a bit coincidental that on that 3rd day,when I first felt the area just let go finally is also the day these just started to appear out of no where,ya know?i had also just finished a round of medrol dose pak the day before the actual tps were done.

    honestly,I am just freaked out about these and have spent many,many many hours on the nest using every imaginable connection of key words to try and find ANYTHING about this with no results.the most i have found ws the name of them or what they appear to be?'striations"?

    i just want to know WHY.and what they are and do they pose risks to me,ya know?the fact that none of my many 'specialists" don't seem to know anything and the fact that I cannot find anything about these on the net really is just freaking me out to say the least.

    i guess this question is more directed at you Dr wise.have you ever ever heard of anything like this before or know of any real reason as to what in gods name would actually trigger something like this??Before this started happening,i had a normal feeling skull,with no grooves or indents or anything,an now the entire back side of both sides of my skull are just loaded with these these channels and depressions that really go deep into my skull now.they arent "hard gooves but more like a gutter you see in a bowling alley?with two sides,a big rounded depression in the middle?but this seems to be causeing the affected areas to appear like they are actually bulging,or rounding kind of out and then it just gets to the more normal part of my skull.

    Any ideas at all on this would be sooo incredibly helpful.anything is better than what I have right now,which is absolutely nothing,nothing at i ststaed before,none of my highly experienced docs have a flippin clue here as to jsut what the cause is.i really AM getting rather desperate for any sort of answers.I thought maybe,just maybe,with your extensive knowledge,you may be able to at least give me some possibilities here for a cause?thanks for taking the time to read this,I am sorry it is so long but i wanted to give you the clearest picture possible.please let me know if you know ANYTHING at all,K? please?again sorry for the book.marcia

    Also,i do have horners syndrome that is affecting my L eye.and have had this since right after my spinalcord surgery(surgery and injuries were about two years ago).this was the first sign i had that indicated my sns injuries too.don't know if this is important or not but thought i would mention it anyway.
    Last edited by firesmurf; 02-07-2006 at 09:26 AM.

  2. #2
    I guess this didn't ring any bells for you Dr wise??these are still there and still no I am getting this constant light type of a "hum' inside of my head and just a really 'odd" feeling in there.creepy just creepy.Thanks,Marcia

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by firesmurf
    I guess this didn't ring any bells for you Dr wise??these are still there and still no I am getting this constant light type of a "hum' inside of my head and just a really 'odd" feeling in there.creepy just creepy.Thanks,Marcia
    Marcia, sorry... I've been running around a bit and did not see your post until just now. Wow, very complicated story. Let me try to guess at what is happening. First, your cervical spine surgery for the hemangioma damaged your sympathetic system on the left, resulting in the Horner's syndrome. Second, your aneurysm was probably there all along (you should check). Third, the ridges may be suture margins of your skull plates and I wonder if you had brain edema that forced them apart before your aneurysm coiling. I don't understand your description of the x-ray findings. What are TP's. Finally, it sounds as if you are having vascular headaches and these could very well be aggravated by the sympathetic paralysis associated with the Horner's syndrome or sympathetic regrowth. I am not sure.

    Are you sure that your doctors don't know what is going on with your skull? Is there a radiological report from the x-rays. I can interpret that, if you would like, for you.


  4. #4
    Thanks a ton for your input wise,I really DO appreciate it.

    you know,despite the fact that I did have an x ray done that the rad called'normal' this is far from normal as it can be.i suppose,to look at the pics,it may have appeared to be what would be considered a "normal' looking skull.the thing is,these new grooves inside the actual skull were NOT ever there before the trigger point injections,they just weren't.I had a normal smooth no ridges or grooves or anything even close to what has been going on there .this is what freaks me out,and they are indeed grooved into the actual skull,not anything just "surface,not by a long shot.the thing is,i don't know if when my primary sent this to be read,if he mentioned to the rad that this was all 'new' or not.I do not have the actual report here but if it is anything like the other plain x ray reports i have got in the past,i am pretty sure it is nothing there that would explain or really say much more than it just looks normal.this is the norm for all my many seperate x ray reports I have had over the many years at my primary.they never go into much detail.

    These grooves or depressions,are not at any of the actual sutures.thatwas also my first thought as well,but they just are not anywhere near them at all,so out goes THAT theory.I thought if they were it had to do with something you just mentioned.I have been waiting like forever to hear anything back from my actual NS.for some reason,it is taking an extremely long time for this to happen.i know he is busy as he was the head of NS at the university of MN up til just recently but is still doing new consults and still seeing his already established patients like me.I am going to call them again and ask his nurse to PLEASE get back to me on all of this.

    I just do not understand just what in the hell could cause this to just suddenly appear like they did.they were "just there' on that third day after the trigger points.

    my primary seems to think that it has something to do with the trigger point injections and the way the nerves and muscle responded.but these are actually into the skull itself.who knows.honestly,if there is something strange freaky or just plain bizarre,it WILL happen to me.or a member of my immediate family.

    what is freaking me out the most here is the fact that none of my other speacialists,even my pain doc who did the actual injections(an anesthesiologist)with many many years of experience has never ever seen this before and i cannot find anything at all on the net about this particular type of thing even occuring in anyone ever.

    my body is just such a freakin mess ever since the cavernoma removal surgery,honestly doc,i have felt sensations and pains and such over the top freaky stuff since this happened that I cannot even put into words.its like every single area of my body is just sooo screwed up now.i know alot of that is being caused just alot by the actual SNS damage as it governs soo many seperate body functions and systems.the RSD is by far the worst so far.

    i do think this is some how actually connected to the horners as well.I do know what the horners was caused from and the fact that this affected my SNS at some point either inside or outside the c 8 area in my cord,and affects nerves as well as certain muscles.i mean is it actually possible that these had been there all the time,and the TPs actually just let the normal muscles to relax enough to actually go down to the skull and all of the sudden just be able to actually feel these grooves for the firt time?but then again,these tuned up over about a two months period of time right over the mastoid area that were not there when the vertical grooves actually presented themselves,these mastoid ones actually showed up like two months after,and run horizontally not vertical like the ones that start at the top of my head and go down TO the mastoid and just stop there.wierd,just really wierd.

    my NS was pretty certain that the aneurysm was not there before.This was only 3x5 in demension and he said that it was rather small compared to others he had seen before.I also had had another angio done way back in 02 when the cav was first discovered to find out if it was an AVM or cav,they also scanned my brain at that time for any other possible lesions that may have been lurking and everything according to the IR who really is one of the top guys in his field(i got him totally by the luck of the draw and requested him again when this was found on the MRA)there were no other vascular malformations in there.the aneurysm itself is in the L superior cerebellar artery and was according to my NS actually kind of leaning into the brainstem.

    Hopefully I can finally get a hold of my real NS for once,geez,you would think i would have heard something back by now??unles she went on yet another extended vacation?who the heck knows.

    i DO appreciate your taking the time to give me some feedback on this Dr wise,really.This is just by far,the most freaky thing yet to have happen since all of the damage was done during my spinal cord surgery,and believe me,there has been TONS of 'freaky".lol.i just thought there may have been a possibility that you may have had seen this type of presentation or heard of something at some point along the I said,after doing hours upon hours of searching on the net,using every possible key word or phrase,i have found nothing except the actual name of these type of things.'striations".

    thanks agin for the time you took to answer me,it really does mean alot.hopefully I will be able to eventually find the real reason for this.I just cannot even imagine what would have caused such a dramatic change in actual solid bone.just another "chapter" in the book of me.Marcia

  5. #5
    firesmurf, there is a phenomenon that is seen on skull x-rays of people who have had increased intracranial pressure. Called "scalloping", the skull plates have reduced density (calcium) at the center and increased density along the suture lines. However, I have not heard of ridges developing on the outside of the skull. Wise.

  6. #6
    thanks tons for that bit of info wise,really.I will speak with my doc about it.the ridges are kind of "into" and not out of,the actual skull?if you run your fingers over the area, just palpating a bit,it feels like these are more pitting and just really tinier little bits of grooving you know what i mean?these arent really raised up ridges,more down??i really really do appreciate all of your help wise,really,any light that can possibly shed on this is sooo much more than anything I have right does help me.i am calling my NS again today and demanding some sort of attention here,this has just become ridiculous.all I want is some sort of actual reason for this or some sort of explanation.I mean something this dramatic does not just suddenly 'happen' ya know?again,thanks tons.Marcia

  7. #7

    Grooves/Ridges on Skull

    From what I can see the last post on this subject was in 2006. Hope someone has more answers since then. I have been developing grooves/ridges from my forehead to the top of my head on the left hand side slowly for years. Now, suddenly the right side has become almost as grooved/ridged. I had 5 Spinal anaesthetics last year and one almost 28 years ago. I have also had many more headaches in the last few months than ever before and get a 'noise' like a cracking whip in my head.
    I was admitted to hospital for routine hip replacement 6 months ago, developed an infection (MRSA) and had 4 more operations, reopening my wound to wash it out. I am a grade 4 risk for GA so it was done by Spinal. Anyone have any ideas. I have not mentioned this to my doctor yet, I have had so many things wrong with me over the past 7 years or more, I feel very uncomfortable raising another matter. Would appreciate emails to

  8. #8
    hi rita, this just showed up in my mailbox today? ya know, i think, over some time we actually kinda stumbled onto the real reason for this insanity? do you actually have any sympathetic nervous system damage going on anywhere from injury, esp spinal cord and the symp chain that runs down along the spinal on the outside from where it pops out right about at c 8 nerve level? have you had a dramatic amount of real weight/fatty loss at all?

    what i have found since this post was that my body, after my chain was hit and i DID most definitely suffer SNS damage, my body was left in that icky 'fight or flight" mode? what occurs while stuck in this crappy mode among other things is the opposite of what i had actually 'assumed' took place? instead of our metabolisms slowing down to divert energeis TO be able to fight of flee, it actually amps up that metabolism in some people as much as 100%. freaked ME out when i heard that since like i said, i had always assumed the slowing would make more sense. but over time here my body has simply been burning up WAYYY more calories and any and ALL fatty stores/pads that are there to usually protect areas from being damaged with even a fall or hit directly to the more boney areas than i can possibly begin to just take in on any given day. ALL my fattty deposits are just totally gone now here in 2010, all of them. i think since we do also have a layer of fatty deposits(simple protection) up around the skull too, that this was really the very first place( or very close to it) where this 'loss' became really apparent in me??

    honestly, i went from being a very strong and physically fit firefighter EMT where i did have a lot of real solid muslce that was the very first thing to see go in me when my cav was found inside my cord, along with the herniated c 6-7 that the original MRI was actually ordered to figure out just how badly i had herniated this bugger(i was placed on immediate Lt duty along with a ten lb weight restriction too)? finding that cav right directly under that c 7 was a total shock for me and first thought to be the arterial counterpart, an AVM? so the venous fed cavernoma was at least less of a real risk when it DID bleed on my in there twice actually.

    but gettting back to the fatty deposits? i simply have none left in my face or my skull or any other place you are just supposed to actually have this for inside protection? i went from what started out pre MRI back in like 2001-2? at 107 and dropped first after all my hard earned muscle loss dropped me down to only 98 lbs, to NOW where i am at hovering around like 92 lbs at this point? i just simply cannot put into my body more than burns up on any given day, even doing absolutely NOTHING to help it. it does not seem to actually matter just how much or how high in calorie/fat foods i eat, even right before bed which is a big no no for people TRYING to actually lose weight are told NOT to do? i simply cannot,no matter what i have tried here to actually even gain any weight over the past few years. i now look how i feel and it sucks even more now. becasue of that stupid fight or flight crap, i also can feel this constant flow of adreneline coursing thru my body too but it is a totally useless type of energy that is like spinning your wheels in one spot and not a 'hey, lets clean the frickin house" type of energy? io t just sucks to be in this particular 'mode".

    rita, try palpating your skull, esp the back of it(the base, just where much more actual fat usually just 'is') and tell me what you feel there or in the areas YOU feel or not normal? if you are not normal there WITH that normal fatty layer even being there at all, you may be suffering just what i am, that loss of fatty deposits in that skull that could also be in particular areas of your face too? my personal theory here is that those areas where i felt the ridges and grooving were already actually there, but i simply never felt them before then til the fatty deposits/layer just dissipated over that period of time? and allll the trigger point inj i had too may have actually accelerated this too?they contained a combo of maricaine and i do believe alcohol?

    but this whole fatty loss crap is just soo flippin sick in me and i cannot EVEN look into any mirror now without feeling sooo grossed out at what i have been now left with and what i had worked sooo freaking hard to even get to and maintain for so many years. it just makes me sick, totally.

    just what exactly IS "GA"? not too familiar with that term? do you actually have some level of real spinal/cord injury too? just knowing your more exacting situation would help alot in trying to help you here. but this just IS what i very strongly believe now, vs back then and just seeing my body go bye bye and NO fat at all even being there anymore was the true basis for why i suddenly felt what I did back then(it was all simply covered really well by MY fatty layer that started to go away about that time but seemed to start within that inner skull area)? it had not yet started on the reat of my head or body back then, only that dang skull area that would be more under the total hairline first? and now of course it has hit the reast of my face in certain areas and the rest of my freaking body. but DO palpate for ANY fatty layer that just may or may not actually be there right now in YOUR problem areas.

    the bigger thing here is that any place that we simply 'have" a layer of fat that becomes removed for whatever reason, you just WOULD be able to feel much more dead on anything that was underneath that layer, ya know what i mean? and i DO think just seeing the sick way all my freaking fat has up and gone on me now IS MY main reason for what I just happened to palpate shortly after all my TPs were done(back in like 2004)? probably since i was also simply palpating it more at that time and really started to notice that loss?

    but there CAN also be many other possible reasons that any given person could actually lose that layer of fat within the head/skull area too(or also other body areas as well, have you checked for any other possible places of true fatty loss at all yet) that may be worth checking into as well. what MY particular situation was is just NOT the one and 'only' possible here by any means, just what occured thru me having a very amped up and over the freaking top metabolism. but from what you described here really just 'could' be the very same 'type' of issue, just may or may not be what created mine at all, ya know?

    i hope you can find some answers here for what you are dealing with. believe me i KNOW how insanely frustrating these off the wall types of crap can just be, esp when you cannot find a dang thing that matches what we are just going thru or even feeling even on the huge place that just IS the net.. just what are the overall 'highlights" of the more pertinent types of major medical issues you have dealt with or simply have, besides what you mentioned above? please keep me posted rita, and good luck in finding YOUR reason. marcia

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