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Thread: Methylprednisolone soon to be replaced as treatment of choice for Acutes???

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DA
    he is worse than me.

    OMG that's funny.

    Christmas smooch to DA...

  2. #12
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    lindox,

    that's exactly what i had done when i got hurt. i had the iv drip of MP and about 5 hours afterwards i had a decompression surgery where i woke up with tingling in my toes. a second surgery the following day to complete decompression and clear debris left my hands tingling.
    Never take life seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway

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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by cali
    lindox,

    that's exactly what i had done when i got hurt. i had the iv drip of MP and about 5 hours afterwards i had a decompression surgery where i woke up with tingling in my toes. a second surgery the following day to complete decompression and clear debris left my hands tingling.
    cali,
    Did you regain anymore sensation or function at all?

    I honestly feel to compare the dogs natural injury from a disc herniation to a spinal cord injury of such force as occurs in humans is in no way a comparison.
    As with comparing a compression injury to a human assault on the spinal cord.

    But with some of our dogs the injury is quite severe.
    Some have already developed calcificated discs..and stenosis. This in itself often puts a great force behind the explosive nature of the disc herniating.

    With dogs..those that still maintain pain sensation in their toes are usually the ones that regain the most function. Those that don't have this sensation have a poor prognosis..yet some have walked. Albeit bowel and bladder remains unimproved. And they rarely can go for too long without reverting to scooting along.

    Before MP..even those decompressed before they lost sensation didn't have as much return as they do now.
    Of course the procedure has been refined..but the MP is what helps to stop the inflammation of the assaulted cord I guess. And has saved many a dogs life. They usually have this happen when they are between 3 and 6 years old. That is young when you are talking about the smaller breeds.

    Am anxious though to see if EPO will be introduced into the dog world.

    Before MP..human SCI had very little to help it at all.
    Life isn't about getting thru the storm but learning to dance in the rain.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by DA
    he is worse than me.
    looney
    cauda equina

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Faye
    Peer review would catch researchers using an ineffective dose. Unless we need to start doubting all published studies now that Hwang's case has been exposed....?!?!? Even those of 15 years ago
    Faye, dozens or perhaps even hundreds of papers have reported that MP improves many outcomes in a variety of spinal cord injury models. The dose, timing, and duration of treatment, as well as the spinal cord injury model, are very important when interpreting the studies. Just because a study does not show statistical significance of a treatment does not mean that the treatment is ineffective.

    MP has modest effect on recovery of rats after severe spinal cord injuries. Even the best spinal cord injury models require 12-20 rats to detect a 10% effect on recovery of function. The model could be variable so that it could not detect the beneficial effects of the treatment. The dose could have been given late. Rat time is 4 or more times faster than human time. In rats, the dose must be given within 30 minutes or even earlier to be effective. The human dose and duration is inappropriate for rats. There are many reasons why the treatment may not have worked.

    The studies showing the MP is effective were done in humans, in fact many more humans than the number of rats that were studied. Two other trials have confirmed our original results published in 1990. What the Turkish study does suggest that erythropoietin is more effective than methylprednisolone although I must say that we have not been able to confirm this in our laboratory and we are repeating the study to make sure. So, please, I am suggesting that BigBob read the paper itself before making the claims that a whole field has been based on a false premise.

    Wise.

  6. #16
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    lindox,
    i honestly can't say if my improvement is a direct result of MP or my surgeries or what because i have nothing to compare to, but i haven't stopped improving yet although it has slowed down.

    i have read that MP reduces swelling to the spinal cord, lessening the severity of the injury as well as stopping your cells from self-destructing. apparently, after an impact like that to the spinal cord, the cells react by self-destructing.
    why? i dunno. that's just what i heard and read.

    it's great that they are working with dogs to have a better life. i'm not what you'd call an animal activist but i am very compassionate towards animals.
    Never take life seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway

    Frank's blog:
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  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young
    I am suggesting that BigBob read the paper itself before making the claims that a whole field has been based on a false premise.

    Wise.
    Doctor Young, in all due respect even if MP works, its not a cure but a preventative for further damage.

    I am of course for a cure and for experimentation to try to find one, however, the discovery of MP should not be tauted as the reason to offer hope for a cure, it has nothing at all to do with regeneration. It didn't mean that a cure would follow.
    And, since the use of MP for traumatic sci in the early 90's what other treatment is currently used. In fifteen years where with all the grants, studies, papers, have we really gotten? What pisses me off is hearing schatten attached a email to hwang suggesting how money could be made from the stem cell hubs.
    Don't ignore the Reeve Legacy, Remember he and Dana supported open research and fought hard for ESCR

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  8. #18
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    bob,

    could you please show where the article indicates this as hope for a cure?


    "Methylprednisolone is the accepted therapeutic treatment for SCI, but it is marginally effective in most cases. Erythropoietin stimulates proliferation and growth of erythroid cells and is involved in neurodevelopment and neuroprotection. It has been studied in brain injuries, but not in SCI."

    now, as for Erythropoietin, the article indicates neurological recovery, not neurological regeneration, or any regeneration for that matter. but what do i know, i'm just a little 19 year old girl. dismiss this at once as

    as for other treatments, i'm sure Dr.Young as well as other doctors can fill you in. or google.
    Never take life seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway

    Frank's blog:
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  9. #19
    Senior Member cali's Avatar
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    oh, and i'd like to clarify further that this following quote from the article explains that "Erythropoietin stimulates proliferation and growth of erythroid cells and is involved in neurodevelopment and neuroprotection."

    it doesn't insinuate a cure or true regeneration. and that this was not studied on sci.
    Never take life seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway

    Frank's blog:
    http://www.franktalk-scurry.blogspot.com
    My regular blog:
    http://www.ithinkithinktoomuchblog.blogspot.com

  10. #20
    Cali, thanks, but logic rarely works with some CC members.
    DA, very funny and since I don't want to play favorites I'd call it a tie.
    BB, see above and it's not a compliment.
    But,
    I think you're all missing the real point here....
    Can I get some Erythropoietin for my dog, Lily? She's had a significant cervical vertebrae problem for over a year and steroid shots from time-to-time have helped her immensely. She does not have medical insurance and can't pay a lot.
    This study looks like progress to me and every little bit helps like return of neurologic function. Scientists and researchers are humans with human foibles, problems, needs, desires, pressures, etc. and are certainly not perfect. Unlike engineering, progress in the research world can't be scheduled or predicted and for anyone to do that casts doubt on their motives. When CNN is there with their cameras asking when the cure will be here the next camera might be from 60 Minutes!
    I personally thank Dr. Young for his MP study which probably helped my son and for all of his current efforts for CC and all people with SCI.
    Happy Holidays to all,
    Carl

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