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Thread: Dr. Young, what do you think of this in regards to a cure?

  1. #1

    Dr. Young, what do you think of this in regards to a cure?

    Has anyone ever tried anything similar to this in animal studies or human clinical trials in hopes of finding a cure?

    1. Blood is taken in large amounts, (one pint per week for three months) for the scientists to make sure that they had enough core blood cells.
    2. Test the blood cells for genetic defects and disease
    3. Cell division and replication begins.
    4. Six injections for myelin sheath stripping to prepare for the actual stem cell injections to come.
    5. After repeated replication the replicated cells were introduced to embryonic stem cells and replicated again.
    6. Once the replication process is finished, steroids are introduced to build the myelin sheath back up and to facilitate the growth of the cells.
    7. Antibiotics, anti inflammatory and steroids to keep the swelling down could be present.
    8. A steroid base to promote growth and strengthen muscles along the spine is also present.
    9. Twenty four injections along the spinal cord are injected using stem cells.
    10. Intense physical therapy is a key factor to re-educate the muscles.

    Thank you very much for your help.
    Godspeed~
    Susan
    www.sciwalker.com

  2. #2
    Susan, you need good HLA-matching of the blood in order for this to succeed. While ABO matching is sufficient for non-rejection of blood cells (erythrocytes), this will not prevent the rejection of HLA mismatched cells (which would apply to the nucleated cells in blood). I don't know the likelihood of an HLA match in an ABO (the blood types) match but, although it may be higher than with the general population, the likelihood of a match is still very low, probably on the order of 1:100,000 or greater, based on estimates from bone marrow matching. Of course much depends on the racial background of the recipient. A majority of the blood that are available in blood banks come from Caucasians and therefore a Caucasian should have an easier time finding a match. But, judging from bone marrow stem cell matches with unrelated donor, a Caucasian who needs a bone marrow transplant may find a match about 60-70% of the time from the bone marrow registry of about 2 million potential donors while an African-American may find a match only 20-40% of the time. So, everything depends on how common your HLA antigens are. If your HLA antigens are very common, the likelihood of a match is high. The idea is, however, an interesting one because every time that you get a unit of blood (about a liter) from a different individual, you have another shot at a match. But, it is a low probability lottery at the best. Furthermore, the dose of stem cells in peripheral blood is very low.

    I don't understand the part relating to "myelin-stripping". Do you mean to demyelinate the person? That would be pretty risky and I am not sure that it is necessary. Furthermore, remyelination should produce recovery in only some patients, i.e. those who have demyelinated axons. We know that about a third of patients respond to 4-aminopyridine and the effects of 4-aminopyridine tend to be modest.

    I assume that you are referring to androgen steroids (the type that is used to build muscles). It is not at all clear that these steroids stimulate myelination. They may well inhibit myelination. Finally, I want to emphasize that although there have been some studies suggesting that testosterone may stimulate regeneration, it is not clear that they would do so in women versus men.

    The steroids, such as methylprednisolone, are very different. They are anti-inflammatory and may actually suppress regeneration and growth if given over a long period of time. That is why such steroids are given for only 24-48 hours after spinal cord injury, to stop injury. Continued methylprednisolone administration beyond this time may actually retard recovery.

    This is just off the top of my head.

    Wise.
    Last edited by Wise Young; 08-29-2005 at 01:49 PM.

  3. #3

    Lightbulb let me clarify.

    Do you know if anyone has tried the above procedure using the individuals own blood?

    As far as the steriods go you are correct with the androgen steroids as that is what seems to have been used.

    The reason i ask these questions are due to the fact that it appears that it something very similar to this has worked and i would like for a great scientist to figure this out and replicate it for everyone else.

    Do you think you could try this in your labratory?

    many thanks..
    Godspeed~
    Susan
    www.sciwalker.com

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Fajt
    Do you know if anyone has tried the above procedure using the individuals own blood?

    As far as the steriods go you are correct with the androgen steroids as that is what seems to have been used.

    The reason i ask these questions are due to the fact that it appears that it something very similar to this has worked and i would like for a great scientist to figure this out and replicate it for everyone else.

    Do you think you could try this in your labratory?

    many thanks..
    I am sorry but I am just not getting it. How can one use the individual's own blood? That blood is circulating in the individual, so why would taking it out and putting it back in help?

    The only approach that might make sense is if they take the person's blood, grow out stem cells, and then re-infuse the stem cells. They did that for the heart of a young kid who had a hole in his heart produced by a nail gun. I am a little skeptical about the beneficial effects of androgen steroids. I can't imagine trying to demyelinate a person; all available demyelination methods that I know of also damage the spinal cord.

    Wise.

  5. #5
    Dr. Young,

    You are correct regarding the blood cells.

    They did use the same blood after #5 of my above post in which i stated "After repeated replication the replicated cells were introduced to embryonic stem cells and replicated again", does that make more sense? You know much more about this than myself and i hope it will be understood and figured out soon, thanks.
    Last edited by Susan Fajt; 08-29-2005 at 08:07 PM.
    Godspeed~
    Susan
    www.sciwalker.com

  6. #6
    Senior Member stlyin moe's Avatar
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    Wise,

    Does this make any sense as it relates to your question of "How can one use the individual's own blood?" and what is being expressed by Susan...

    "The TriStem technology offers the potential to prepare large quantities of stem cells from the patient's own blood by the process of retrodifferentiation and, therefore, provides substantial benefits, both in terms of cost effectiveness and potential clinical outcomes to be gained from infusing higher concentrations of stem cells including more committed subsets. In addition, the technology provides a new source of stem cell supply which represents a quantum leap in yield when compared with current harvesting methods. Significantly, the procedure reduces the need for a donor, nor does it require potentially uncomfortable invasive surgical procedures."
    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." ~ Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by stlyin moe
    Wise,

    Does this make any sense as it relates to your question of "How can one use the individual's own blood?" and what is being expressed by Susan...

    "The TriStem technology offers the potential to prepare large quantities of stem cells from the patient's own blood by the process of retrodifferentiation and, therefore, provides substantial benefits, both in terms of cost effectiveness and potential clinical outcomes to be gained from infusing higher concentrations of stem cells including more committed subsets. In addition, the technology provides a new source of stem cell supply which represents a quantum leap in yield when compared with current harvesting methods. Significantly, the procedure reduces the need for a donor, nor does it require potentially uncomfortable invasive surgical procedures."
    Yes, there has been great interest in expanding stem cells from peripheral blood since they did it in Michigan in the young kid who had the nail in his heart. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in542962.shtml

  8. #8
    Senior Member stlyin moe's Avatar
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    TriStem says they have already produced neural stem cells. I don't know if this has already been done yet or not, but it sounded good to me.

    So if this method (expanding stem cells from peripheral blood) was used in Susan's application, would this be the best way to go about it?
    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." ~ Thomas Jefferson

  9. #9

    TriStem

    Dr. Young,

    what is your opinion about the TriStem process of retrodifferentiation?

    Tanks

    Paolo

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla
    Dr. Young,

    what is your opinion about the TriStem process of retrodifferentiation?

    Tanks

    Paolo
    There have been many reports by many groups that they have developed ways to expand peripheral blood stem cells, bone marrow stem cells, or umbilical cord blood stem cells. These have not yet been approved by the FDA or placed into rigorous clinical trials. It is not clear what the cells are and what they do after transplantation, even if they may show some markers of neural stem cells. About two years ago, we tried many of the published methods and found that most of them are unreliable or do not work. So, at best, these are experimental methods that need to be developed and scaled for clinical use. The Tristem process is very interesting and I am excited about it. However, I don't know whether it is available or in clinical trial yet. There are some scientists who are very skeptical about the claim until they see better documented results.

    Wise.

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