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Thread: Insurance fraud? Say it ain't so, Joe!

  1. #11
    First of all, Curt, I am not selling these devices, I am making them available at cost, and not to 'consumers' but to those who show a genuine interest in the procedure, who have viewed the web page and are therefore familiar with what is involved, who are 'trained' then in that sense, and who wish to see what it will do for them and those they love. This is unlike the consumer who buys something because of the salesman's credentials and ceritification, like FES, and who has no idea what to look for if the product should not work. In the case of what is called 'galvanic revivification', the electrochemical procedure I am offering for consideration here, in the training videos that will be on the web page the potential self-experimenter will be told in detail what to look for, in way of the procedure's affect on strength of muscle contraction and how it changes over time (growing stronger), in the way lights flash when one with eyes closed puts the anode to the the forehead, in the reddening of the skin beneath the electrode and how the skin affect at either electrode differs if the reddening is allowed to deepen, in the how the fingers will move when certain points are touched, how at one point the brow will lift but at another less than half an inch away the eye will close, how you can hear the frequency change as you turn the dial with the anode delivering power in front of the ear, and so on. If the experimenter does not see these things and experience these things, he does not have a nervous system. Such person does not need a lawyer to sue me, he needs a priest or a mortician.

  2. #12
    Larwatson, fractures are extremely unlikely, and more likely to be healed then caused. The use of direct current on bone healing has long been studied, and on the web page in the essay "Breakout Session 3...", the one by the team of orthopedists, they even discuss the incredible findings of that sort of stimulation. One of the reasons bone breaking and fracturing is a consideration for those who use FES is that the contractions it causes can be quite powerful, even though on weak muscle. Furthermore, the way the electrodes are applied is to a large muscle group. DC stimulation causes weak contractions on weak muscle, contractions which grow stronger over time as the muscle is restored. You know we have musclo-skeletal systems, that is, we won't find strong muscles on weak bones, and weak muscles on healthy bones. FES makes even severely atrophic muscles contract strongly, and these muscle are on weak bones. FES is dangerous for the chronic paralytic in this regard. Furthermore, in a muscle group there may be up to sixteen neuromuscular junctions (the quadriceps and rectus femoris group). Stimulating with DC one goes to each of these junctions separately, overloading it to cause protein synthesis, but in no way that is remotely harmful to the bone.

  3. #13
    I would caution anyone experimenting with this not to place the Cathode or the Anode anywhere near the heart. This could be a great way to stop the heart from beating if placed anywhere around that area of the chest.

    Also the electrodes should not be placed anywhere on the head in my opinion, this is a great way to fry your brain.

    I would suggest anyone considering this kind of therapy, be very cautious.

  4. #14
    Sounds sketchy. I guess time (& user reports) will tell. Greg, is Curt correct??

    Keep us updated.

  5. #15
    Curt, I always urge people to be cautious, or at least mindful, of what they are doing. In the origninal posting in this thread I wrote of the continuing superstition and ignorance with regard to the affects of electrical charge on the body. I want to say that the idea that one might stop one's heart or fry one's brain, especially at the current strengths and voltages provided by the equipment, is almost totally off the mark. The user controls the power setting, and it is only through a mistake that he might put the anode to the head while the power is high, and get something akin to a hammer blow to the head. That is why I stress familiarity with the equipment and its use, learning of proper technique, before doing anything like putting the anode to the head. The general rule is if it doesn't hurt your hand, it is safe to use on the head and neck. When I was consulting with an engineer about the first unit he put together for testing, the first thing I did to test its strength was put the anode over my heart and turn the power up all the way. The engineer's eyes grew as big as saucers when I did this. I said it was not powerful enough, and asked him if he ever shocked himself deliberately. He replied no, and said that to feel a shock meant that one had either done something wrong or careless. This is the state of understanding of engineers about electricity, and it is seen clearly in the case of Jerold Petrofsky, an engineer who has no idea that biphasic current is useless because he does not understand electrochemistry and its role in the functioning of bodys with nervous systems. Nevertheless, I understand the prudence of your warning. You will find the material on the web page explaining and demonstrating the use of the machine and why the wave form is the way it is, to be very complete when it is finished. But that won't be for another month. This will be about the time the equipment is available for those who wish to check it out. I have been using the equipment regularly on my heart and head, and find it absolutely enjoyable and relaxing. In fact the ganglia for the vagus nerve's inputs to the heart and some muscles of the upper thorax, can be stimulated at full power without even painful skin sensation (or so it is for me) Even beginners who trust me yet are skeptical, when the anode is applied to the neck at the same strength being used on the hand, remark about how relaxing and warming the stimulus is even though their heads are jerked around by it. Electrocardiograms done by the VA to check my heart functioning found it to be, in the words of the examining physician, 'textbook perfect.' And my blood pressure is usually 95 over 60. The acuity of my vision is better than 35 years ago when, at the Air Force Academy, I was told my eyes weren't good enough for me to go to pilot training. When I was flying privately ten years ago the examining physician for my medical found my eyes good enough to not need glasses. My dentist is impressed with the density and health of my jawbone and teeth. The caution you advise is good for the beginner, the person not yet familiar with the procedure who has not developed good technique, but over time fascination with the results and the feeling will lead the user to turn up the power higher than is needed just because it feels so good.

  6. #16
    Aren't Don's posts starting to sound more like Acid's as each day passes? (Inside joke around here...sorry Don)

    Eric Harness,CSCS
    Project Walkâ„¢

  7. #17
    Originally posted by Snowman:

    Aren't Don's posts starting to sound more like Acid's as each day passes? (Inside joke around here...sorry Don)

    Eric Harness,CSCS

    heh, heh . . . I was thinking the same thing to myself earlier today.

    What we do in life echoes in eternity. Maximus - Gladiator

  8. #18
    what the heck...

    Greg, someone is gonna sue your tail someday for toying with this shock therapy, and from your last post, I doubt you'll have much of a defense. Where's the scientific data you like to dwell on for this one... i.e. how much power is safe?

    "Hell, it feels good, I'll just crank it way up!" What if a quad follows your general rule & it doesn't hurt his/her hand due to lack of (or diminished) sensation? So what if you "urge people to be cautious."

    Every body type is different, not to mention the detrimental toll SCI takes. This is crazy.

    Eric... uh huh

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Dublin, Ireland
    at 120 dollars I would love to try can I find my neuromuscular junctions in my deltoid though. (sorry for being so me, me, me here). How are we going to know where to place the electrodes exactly. Will diagrams do.

  10. #20
    CareCure is not responsible for any injuries or damages that result from the use of this machine which has not been tested for safety or efficacy and is not approved for use in the US. Anyone who chooses to use this device will be doing so at their own risk.

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