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Thread: Repenting about Cassini 3.3

  1. #1

    Repenting about Cassini 3.3

    Previously I questioned whether spending 3.3 billion on Cassini 3.3 was the best scientific use of those assets. I also questioned the idea that the more remote knowledge is, the more "scientific" it is.

    However, the phenomenal discoveries now force me to take it all back. Yes, I am apologizing for saying those nasty things. Things like I seriously doubted Cassini 3.3 would tell us how the universe came to be. Ugly things, like NASA overdramatizes to get more money, or that letting schoolchidren send goldfish into space wasn't high grade research.

    Saturn, as you know is a giant gas planet. Now get this, Cassini 3.3 has actually shown that there is also methane gas on its moon, Titan. Yes, around Titan there is gas. At last, we have our answer, Gas is NOT absent from Titan*

    Now we already knew that gas was everywhere else in the universe, but to think it is ALSO on this one moon is almost unbelievable.

    Cassini 3.3 has also shown that when the gas around Saturn is more directly in the Sun's light, that the gas EXPANDS in the heat.

    Oh...my gosh. Yeah, I know. All of you out there were thinking gas would contract in the heat. No longer must you struggle under the weight of burning questions about Titan that keep you awake.

    I suggest we take the roughly ten thousand dollars spent at NIH on nitric oxide, the GAS neurotransmitter of the pain cycle in every human, and spend it instead studying the gas around Titan.

    You probably wonder whether flinging enough money into space to move Mount Everest ninety miles to the north will provide any useful knowledge about pain, or other life processes. I asked NASA and they said that from earth, Titan was really small, so looking at it might give us practice in looking at small things, like the molecules that make life.

    ___________________
    *For a bumpersticker with this message send 3.3 billion dollars to OnlyObvious.com

    [This message was edited by dejerine on 08-10-04 at 07:38 AM.]

  2. #2
    Message from Department of Applied Terrestrial Sciences Beneficial to Mankind at NASA.

    The quarter billion dollar Genesis capsule crashed into the Utah desert at the Dugway Nerve Gas Storage Facility Wiley E. Coyote Target Area (A nerve gas storage facility is a really good place to land when you aren't sure what the capsule will hit. We really don't have to worry though, because nothing ever goes wrong at NASA. Hey Martha, what is that cloud coming toward us?).

    Dugway is where geodes come from, and NASA found several valuable ones (each one revealing the secrets of the formation of the universe) tunneling down to find the fragments of the capsule.

    They are picking up the fragments with the prototype microscope for Honey I Shrunk the Kids, and tweezers specially designed to uncover the secrets of the formation of the universe.

    The director stated that the failure was possibly due to the effects of nerve gas on parachutes. He also said NASA intended to leave an unfavorable comment at ebay for spacerecycler96, who supplied the chutes.

    Execs at NASA said they would take a pay cut so airbags could be used next time, but not a paycut big enough to pay back the quarter billion (263 million actually, but who's counting).

    NASA had promised the capsule would reveal the secrets of the formation of the universe (just in case NASA decides to build their own someday) The crash will not set NASA back since ALL THEIR PROJECTS reveal the secrets of the formation of the universe, ALL THE TIME.

    In the meantime, it was feared that pain research at NIH might be slowed, because they cannot afford enough agar plates to do vital human research, until next year's budget. (not a joke). They plan to increase their funding by promising Congress that, hereafter, each and every project at NIH will uncover the secrets of the formation of the universe, along with curing disease in carbon units who contaminate it.

    [This message was edited by dejerine on 09-14-04 at 02:20 PM.]

  3. #3
    NASA does do something. (And she'll have fun, fun, fun till her Daddy takes her T-bird away.)

    Recently Eugene Cernan received an award. Cernan,the last man to walk on the moon, has shown clear vision on the real mission of NASA.

    He said, "I think the day..is very near we can send a school teacher a student, a poet, an artist, a journalist into space" Cernan stated. Those space travelers, he said, would 'come back and share with the rest of the world their feelings and thoughts'

    I could not agree more. The day is not far away. Goodness knows the scientists can't figure out any reason to be up there. "Feelings and thoughts" may come at a high price however. I would be willing to share my feelings and thoughts for considerably less than two billion, but no doubt a student's feelings and thoughts are much more valuable.

    Garn and Glenn already went up there and their feelings and thoughts haven't exactly revolutionized the world. Garn said "That was fun" and Glenn said "I still can't figure out why they would spend two billion dollars to send me up there*, but it was fun". Of course, so is Six Flags and the Disneyland water ride. It did take courage, but then, so does going to an HMO.

    NASA"S budget is 26 billion, which is just a little more than the sum total of medical research in this country. I suppose I got on this hobby horse when I listened to a scientist say, "NASA doesn't really do anything". The more I thought about it, I thought he was right, until I read Cernan's analysis. Now all we have to decide is whether we wish to pay two billion for each school teacher, student, poet, artist and journalist to fly three hundred miles above earth. That would be ten billion right there. If we threw in a rock star, male and female, a mother, a father, little league coach, and a few others it could get a little expensive. Vertical travel is more expensive than horizontal travel.

    I could already tell them what the poet will say:

    Beyond yonder clouds and just beneath the sun
    The human spirit soars above and utters, That was fun!

    NASA does make very nice firecrackers. I just hope there are a few million left over for pain research. It took two million to produce resiniferatoxin. Somehow I don't think the return of sending a student into space to tell us his THOUGHTS is quite going to match the benefit to mankind of resiniferatoxin, but then we always suspected NASA was more into the arts than the sciences.

    _____________

    *NASA swears this had nothing to do with kissing up to the Senate to get more funding, the two Senators just happened to be on the funding committees, a random coincidence.

    [This message was edited by dejerine on 10-02-04 at 12:17 PM.]

  4. #4
    dejerine, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your posts. Wise.

  5. #5
    dejerine,
    Come on ...fess up..you are really a descendant of Mark Twain aren't you?

    Help is on the way.

  6. #6
    Lindox,

    Whoa, You guys are actually there. Part of my family was, oddly enough, in Hannibal when Mr. Clemens wrote. He did not wear the white suit, with the glorious white hair, he is shown in until the last year of his life, when he was over seventy. Being unable to wear hardly any clothing, I am attentive to the clothing of anyone who dies in pain. Before that, he wore black serge. I once tried to research out his death, since there were those claiming to have medical information who said he took his own life over pain; and his family, who denied it. His final record changes tone, lists his doses of medication, and becomes overly religious at the end, as if someone else wrote it. So I wonder.

    My posts are generally written at night when the pain will not let me sleep and I write to stave off the CP. I am always startled to realize anyone is there with me in my situation, and a little embarassed. I hope all understand that on my medication, I don't wish to be held to much that I write.

    It is difficult to speak intelligently about pain. The grasp of it does not come from anything literary. It comes from the simple, human descriptions of it from threads like the one globe started. I am privileged to be able to sit here and read their posts. They help me see more clearly.

    It is easy to critique those who do not believe in pain. They are more up in the night than I am. It is extremely hard, however, to write about one's own pain and I have not gotten there yet. When I do,I suspect it will only be through a retro journey where I abandon my education and regress to someone who is just "on the earth".

    That is why I love to read the posts. I can hardly bear to read some of them, but I am so grateful everyone takes the time. There are so many I watch to see how it is going. And of course, I admire Wise so much. He reminds me of others who help. I do not understand them. You can't write it off to anything more than basic goodness.
    ___________________________________

    I flipped on the TV today and there was some speaker talking about why the righteous must suffer along with the wicked. He said, "First, I don't know; and second, maybe you aren't as righteous as you think you are."

    [This message was edited by dejerine on 10-03-04 at 12:13 AM.]

  7. #7
    Tom DeLay, whose home district includes the Johnson Space Center. "Houston we have ignition" got every penny requested in the latest funding bill. DeLay justified the huge expenditure which will last for decades by saying it would fulfil the dreams of the human heart. Which humans is that exactly?

    Objections have come from the most unlikely body. Physicists and other scientists who don't think it will accomplish anything and will suck money from real projects.

    "I wouldn't say we're critical of the moon-Mars program, but we are critical of the lack of clarity about the scientific benefits," said physicist Michael Lubell, spokesman for the American Physical Society, the nation's largest association of research physicists. "This is bound to be an extremely costly project, so what are we going to get from it?"

    "Heart" is figurative for the human "spirit". We wouldn't want anything crassly material, like a real heart, sneaking into our scientific endeavors at achieving spiritual goals.

    One thing we are not going to get from NASA (North American Spiritual Agency) is anything to help the human body. As Plato said, "The physical is corruption. Perfection is only in the spiritual" and to help spiritual perfection along, nothing is better than a corrupted physical object, like a rocket. The earth is in such a mess, we should just write it off and look to the stars, or Mars anyway, where we will take mankind so the human heart (spirit) can soar. All but four or five of you will have to stay behind, of course.

    NASA is going to have the Apprentice teams sell space projects to the American people. The losers have to work with Donald Trump, the winners get a lesson from a golf pro on Mars, a pro valuable to science, like Gerald Ford (famous for golf ball trajectories).

    If even the physicists won't back NASA, maybe we should be asking some hard questions.

    Question: Would you rather cure cancer and stop pain or watch an amateur hit a golfball on the surface of Mars? Don't bother to reply. NASA has already answered it for you.

    On the flip side, the Martians themselves favor the project, saying it is about time the United States spends some of its money on them. In fact, not a single dissenting vote was cast against the project by Martians. NASA has therefore claimed a mandate, or rather Martiandate, to proceed with the expenditure.

    [This message was edited by dejerine on 12-09-04 at 02:25 PM.]

  8. #8
    Here is my kind of NASA, and my kind of heart, and the NASA engineers did it for free. Real science. Now how about some brain study.
    __________________________

    Teen receives DeBakey heart.

    The DeBakey device, made of titanium and plastic, fits inside the patient's chest and is powered by an external battery pack. It had been implanted in another child who did not survive.


    DeBakey began working on the device in the 1980s after performing a heart transplant on a NASA (news - web sites) engineer.


    Other NASA engineers became interested in the project and contributed ideas on how an implantable heart pump might benefit from the principles used to pump fuel in the space shuttle.


    DeBakey conducted clinical trials in Germany on an adult-size internal heart pump and later won approval for its use in Europe, where more than 240 devices have been implanted in adults.


    A Houston company modified the device for children, and the U.S. government approved its use.

    _____________________________

    The question of course is whether Congress would vote money to "fulfill" this kind of "human heart".

    [This message was edited by dejerine on 12-10-04 at 12:42 AM.]

  9. #9
    Gunfight at the CP corral.

    Me with my budget of zero vs. NASA with a budget of 27 billion this year. The Klonopin Kid vs. The Life Science wannabes.

    Ah, liquid nitrogen, sort of like flubber. So much fun to play around with and so irrelevant to how life formed on earth. Those of us who watched what it does to superballs in high school chemistry know that this is NOT how life formed on earth. It is how life ENTERTAINS itself on earth, by freezing stuff with liquid nitrogen, like sandwiches or warts, whatever our feeble minds can dream up. Nitrogen may be liquid on Titan, NASA is predicting volcanoes spouting liquid nitrogen there, but was this earth's past??? or is it earth's present, the way NASA entertains itself, just like we did in high school.

    Methane of course asphyxiates life here on earth. It is what they used canaries in mines for. Miners won't buy the idea a methane environment explains how life began on earth. It is more like how it ends.


    Having stated that 3.3 billion dollars would likely cure pain, malaria, or whatever, I have questioned whether NASA's flight to Titan is the best use of research funds.

    I now propose to put my reputation? on the line. Huygens lands on Friday. I am posting this in advance to see if my guess is correct. If I am wrong, I will accept mocking emails, cease all comment on NASA waste, and devote my borderline ignorant commentary to some other topic, or shut up entirely, as most of you may prefer.

    Here are the stakes. NASA stated today:

    For more than four hours, the scout will relay back to its mothership [mother is shooting her baby to its destruction] precious data WHICH COULD HELP EXPLAIN THE CHEMICAL RECIPE THAT ENABLED LIFE TO APPEAR ON EARTH SEVERAL BILLION YEARS AGO. (Words in capitals inserted with the macro hotkey NASA uses in ALL communiques--it just sounds so dang good, people who actually study life are a lot more humble and don't predict such things). Three minutes of data are predicted from the actual surface, the rest will tell us about the descent by parachute.

    The NASA admins did not say whether the data is "precious" because it will reveal information, or because it cost 3.3 billion dollars.

    NASA continues:

    "We suspect that Titan's atmosphere is undergoing the same type of chemical reactions that took place on Earth way before life appeared. These precursors are called prebiotic chemistry, in other words, the chemistry which took place on Earth before the emergence of life."


    Just a minute. NASA says any Titan chemical reactions are "prebiotic", after they define prebiotic as the way earth used to be. They have used the real question in the definition of how things are on Titan. Circularity.

    The real question is how earth used to be. NASA bypasses that by saying Titan MUST be like earth used to be (It is round, it looks like earth, and has smog), and then proceeds to study how Titan is. That avoids the real question of whether Titan is actually like early Earth. Titan MAY be like early earth, but Bigfoot MAY be tramping around the Tlingit National Forest. Passing on the obvious question of why we are going to Titan to learn about earth, we must consider what is being promised. Is NASA really going to tell us how life began or is it just selling the idea or image of finding it out? The How Life Began generation--that's us.

    Image IS everything. For its latest round of binge spending, NASA has the pretty lady walking around the ring holding up the sign which says "Will uncover the secrets of how life formed on earth" because her contract requires her to be present at all NASA functions, so we shouldn't pay too much attention to her. NASA is exercised because Titan has methane AND nitrogen, and has a thick atmosphere, which will probably do the things atmospheres do. A little storm, a little lightning, and some weird radiation thingies.

    Now Nitrogen becomes a liquid around -320 and a solid around -342 (close enough). Pluto at -380 is covered with a nitrogen frost on the ground. A great many celestial bodies have lots of methane, including Saturn itself.

    Let us then guess what Huygens will find:

    1. Titan has methane
    2. Titan has nitrogen
    3. Titan has an atmosphere with lots of both (Earth's atmosphere is about 80 percent nitrogen)
    4. Being very cold, (about -292) some of the nitrogen may be liquid, as may the methane, but we already knew that.
    5. We still won't know what goes on when the temperature is a lot hotter, so it will just be speculation, based on what nitrogen/methane do when it is too cold even to think about life. There will be speculation that some sort of life may have been able to adapt to the harsh conditions.
    6. NASA will say Titan either had a warmer atmosphere sometime in the past, or might warm up some time in the future, making the data applicable to earth, based on what we already know from studies here on earth.
    7. Because the atmosphere is orange, there is speculation from a group of astronomers at the Wilson Observatory trying to see Titan through the heavy orange haze of LA that what senior astrophysicists call "smog" (superrefracting molecules of gas) must be responsible for the orange color.
    8. Because Titan atmosphere is fifty percent thicker than earth, the parachutes will work, and the installers will say the landing makes up for the landing at Dugway, which revealed the secret of life that it is statistically more likely if the parachutes don't deploy upside down. NASA was thinking of anti-matter universes where parachutes work in reverse. Is anything that uses a parachute going to tell us the secret of how life began?? How come all the space movies don't show the aliens coming down in parachutes? We are going to solve the secret of life before we solve gravity?
    9. NASA will gush and exclaim like a bunch of space groupies about how unexpected certain things were, how stunning the images are, and how cool the whole game is, and how they can't say anything for sure until the data are all analyzed several aeons from now, but that they should know more once they do the Mars mission.
    10. I will still get to say snotty things about the money we threw into space because NASA's trip to Titan will NOT reveal how life formed on the earth, more than we already can see better here on earth.

    I hope I am wrong. I would like to know how life formed on earth like anyone else. I guess I am just a little more curious about how to improve the quality of life that already exists. If every person on EARTH spent one million dollars to study space, we could not study one percent of the celestial bodies. We could not study one percent of the celestial bodies where there is lots of methane, OR nitrogen, or anything else.

    The human spirit can soar here as well as in outer space where it is "cold as hell"-- Elton John. If this were not true, we would all need to be transported into outer space to watch the Huygens data come in, in order to appreciate it. If we take a Titan-centric viewpoint of the weather, we are soaring along pretty well here on earth right now. We can watch Huygens here just as well, for the good it does us. Now if Titan wanted to spend a fortune to visit us, that would make sense. We could show them Maui. Curing pain wouldn't make our spirits soar at all.

    Yeah, I am being a spoiler/griper/naysayer. It's funny how 3 billion dollar flights to hostile environments to learn how life evolved can make me do that. I will watch the Huygens stuff. And then I will come back down to earth, and wonder when they will stop pain, the number one medical problem on earth. I have a feeling Titan will not do it for me.

    Excuse me now, I have a lot of extra money and I want to go play with my liquid nitrogen. I use it to prove to doubters, skeptics and experts that cold can burn, just like in me.

    P.S. Be sure to watch the $75 million inauguration of the president.

    [This message was edited by dejerine on 01-14-05 at 09:43 AM.]

  10. #10
    dup post

    [This message was edited by dejerine on 01-13-05 at 03:08 PM.]

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