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Thread: Neuropathic pain..exactly what is it?

  1. #11
    BR there is a lot on dorsal stims here search, mine became totally ineffective in less than a year and it took 2 surgeries and 2 minor revisions to get it right. I wish I had passed on it
    Kindly,

    The Ketamine Kitty

    All the tears, all the pain, all the rage through the night (apolgies to the rewrite) RR

    Next time I die make sure I'm gone,
    don't leave 'em nothing to work on JT

    And I ain't nothin but a dream JM

  2. #12
    Senior Member tarheelandy's Avatar
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    br1863,

    Have you considered Ketamine? I went to a pain specialist yesterday for my nero pain, and he wants me to try it. It is expensive and very time consumming. Seems drastic, but he says it works well for his patients.

  3. #13
    Hi Amanda , Gang
    My interpretation of what my Neuropatic Pain is ;

    Because of my Bad SCI injury I use this style of interpretation

    I am a Quad
    To me Neuropathetic pain is a un measurable pain which consists of these factor's
    Bad Spinal cord Receptor signals from my brain to my particular limb of use
    ( Or Non useage )

    Neuro = Neurology or nerves and how they work for people in general how they fire off if possible ...

    Pathic = Lack of the Nerve signal synaptic flow way's to what ever muscle group I / We need to use for a particular task .

    The specialty of neurology is a uncharted map of making or helping injured persons hopefully regain neurological motor skills .

    This Neurological pain varies from patient to patient .

    Dr wise said thing's nicely regarding this post

    hope you all smile
    Sincerely;
    Gypsylady

  4. #14

    Ketamine

    they don't call me the ketamine kitty for nothing. helped for a while 4 months or so but ended up needing doses that were high enough to send me in the khole (not good). mine was $30 a month, not too bad.

    not well tested for extended usage and there are some potential issues re possible brain alteration ...vacoules

    hard on th memory

    net I gave it up

    I have a thread on it. do a search
    Kindly,

    The Ketamine Kitty

    All the tears, all the pain, all the rage through the night (apolgies to the rewrite) RR

    Next time I die make sure I'm gone,
    don't leave 'em nothing to work on JT

    And I ain't nothin but a dream JM

  5. #15
    neuropathic pain = still not quite understood agony for those who have it
    Kindly,

    The Ketamine Kitty

    All the tears, all the pain, all the rage through the night (apolgies to the rewrite) RR

    Next time I die make sure I'm gone,
    don't leave 'em nothing to work on JT

    And I ain't nothin but a dream JM

  6. #16
    Senior Member Fragile's Avatar
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    phosphokinase

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Young View Post

    A fourth theory is that neuropathic pain emanates from neurons in the spinal cord that have been deafferented and express a particular enzyme called PKC (phosphokinase) gamma. Mice that have had their PKC gamma gene knocked out do not develop neuropathic pain. It turns out that these neurons are located in a particular layer of the dorsal gray matter of the spinal cord that receives sensory signals, and these cells fire high-frequency bursts of action potentials that may lead to pain.
    Is the phosphokinase enzyme necessary for anything and can it be knocked out or inhibited in humans?

    Edit: searched for phosphokinase, think I found the answer
    Last edited by Fragile; 05-16-2010 at 10:48 AM.

  7. #17
    neuropathic pain include central pain as well as peripheral nerve injury. It means pain from injury to a nerve. In the body, injury is followed by inflammation, presumably to prevent use of that injured part and further damage. Why it exists in the spinal cord is unclear. Inflammation seems to have some protective function by itself, with the fatty acids released having particular effectiveness against the fungae.

    Nerve injury pain seems to be linked to the TRPV-1 receptor. This is a part of a calcium/sodium ion exchanger which creates enough voltage potential for a pain nerve to fire.

    Recent work by Hargreaves indicates that with injury to nerves in the CNS, a fatty acid called 9 hydroxyoxydecadienoic acid or 9-HODE is the culprit, turning TRPV-1 on.

    Omega 6 fats are metabolized to linoleic acid, which is BAD and is associated with 9-HODE.

    Omega 3 fats are metabolized to lenolenic acid which is NOT inflammatory and is good.

    For years, those with central pain have described the dysesthetic burning as "like acid under my skin". Since the injury deprives them of knowledge of skin topology (atopoesthesia) they don't really know where the surface of their skin is precisely. However, they usually say "chemical burning under my skin".

    It has been proposed that that is precisely what is going on. Fatty acids, including 9 HODE, are acids burning them under their skin.

    9-HODE is released due to the chemical process of inflammation.

    So neuropathic pain is neuroinflammatory hyperalgesia.

    The hyperalgesia deranges the pain apparatus so that other pains become present, such as lightning or lancinating pains, pins and needles, muscle cramps and other pains, wetness, tightness etc. These apparently represent a mix of pain sensations which have been set off by the effect of neuroinflammation. Quiet pain tracts suddenly fire without any stimulus being necessary. This would be a really good way to torture somebody. You can get them from so many angles.

    The lancinating pain is NOTHING like the burning. Burning is a flare without good boundaries. Lancinating pain is VERY specific in location and direction. It feels like an electric shock along the course of a nerve, very intense. It is also seen in tertiary syphihlis when the posterior columns of the cord have been damaged by the spirochete. Some feel this pain, ie lancinating pain, is more responsive to meds than the burning pain. It does not seem unfamiliar in quality like the burning does. Pins and needles feels like ordinary pins and needles, but greatly enhanced. We don't have really good descriptions of the other pains. The muscle pains have a cramping and a burning quality brought out by bearing a load on the muscle ie attempting to move.

    The pain of central pain occurs in the denervated areas. So where you are numb or at least a little numb is where the burning will be felt. There has to be some interference with normal superficial sensations (touch pain, temperature etc.), ie you have to lose a little or a lot of sensation, in order to be a candidate to experience the heightened pain of central pain. This is known as "Boivie's Paradox" after a great pain research at Karolinska. It is rare for the totally numb person to have severe CP, but there are certainly exceptions to this. They are felt to retain sensation in the nerves accompanying their blood vessels, even if they are not aware of any sensation in the numb areas.

    For unknown reasons the burning of central pain grows worse as the distance along the nerve increases. This is called centripetal or distal burning. Since the areas of interest also happen to be the sensitive areas, such as fingertips, feet and toes, or in the case of high lesions the lips tongue eyes and dura, these sensitive areas are well supplied with nerve endings, so the distal burning may just reflect the greater activity in distal areas of our body meant to touch things. The pain is so exquisite that severe cases of CP on the face can almost outline the zones of nerve supply, with the distal skin having the most burning. This zoning back of pain was called by Dejerine "onion peel" skin, meaning a person with severe facial CP can tell you where one nerve supply ends and another begins by the gradation in pain. Why this occurs only on the face is not known. Pain on the face drops DOWN into the cord as low as C5 or C6 and then rises in the pain tracts from the substantia gelatinosa to reach the brain (thalamus and subthalamus).

    Those with stroke in the brain near the thalamus generally have central pain on the opposite side of the body, same side of the face as the stroke.

    Not everyone has all the central pains. If you think of anything that could be uncomfortable or painful, or any type of pain, it may be present in a given CP subject. The burning really blankets the person and erodes their personality to some degree (just ask their family), the lancinating is the most intense of the pains but it intermittent, the pins and needles is a constant thing which causes torment. The area of the body affected is a factor, as is the length of time one has had to endure it. I personally am not certain that the personality could possibly remain the same after decades of enduring central pain. Something, and probably a lot of things have to give. Reality changes for someone with severe central pain.

    peripheral nerve injury is more or less the same thing, neuroinflammation in a peripheral nerve OUTSIDE the central nervous system. PNI evokes immediately upon light touch whereas CP has maybe a 20 second delay to light touch (newspaper laid on the skin, or maybe saran wrap), with often a shorter or no delay for a current of direct cold air. This is a quick diagnostic way to differentiate PNI from CP, lay a newspaper on the affected skin surface and see if there is any delay. Both CP and PNI evoke immediately to a sharp safety pin. PNI is more limited in distribution but can cause very severe pain IN THE AFFECTED AREA, such as in post herpetic neuralgia, or zoster.
    Last edited by dejerine; 05-16-2010 at 06:30 PM.

  8. #18
    Hi amanda,I think wise young has given your ans,there is nothing to tell anything more but i will give you my view and in my view There are various treatments available for neuropathic pain depending on the cause. It is extremely important to get to an experienced neurologist as soon as you notice the symptoms before the disease has a chance to cause too much permanent damage.So take your decisions wisely.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dejerine
    The lancinating pain is NOTHING like the burning. Burning is a flare without good boundaries. Lancinating pain is VERY specific in location and direction. It feels like an electric shock along the course of a nerve, very intense. It is also seen in tertiary syphihlis when the posterior columns of the cord have been damaged by the spirochete. Some feel this pain, ie lancinating pain, is more responsive to meds than the burning pain. It does not seem unfamiliar in quality like the burning does.
    Is there anyone out there who you know of who disagrees with this, dej -- professional or patient? It seems so obvious, but the fact that you mention it at all makes me wonder if you've recently come across something or someone who tried to argue otherwise.
    It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.

    ~Julius Caesar


  10. #20
    On fire today. live with lancinating and electric 24x7 but the "acid wash" (my words) is clearly the worst although mega pins and needles comes close, makes me thrash about.
    Kindly,

    The Ketamine Kitty

    All the tears, all the pain, all the rage through the night (apolgies to the rewrite) RR

    Next time I die make sure I'm gone,
    don't leave 'em nothing to work on JT

    And I ain't nothin but a dream JM

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