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Thread: "Shock & Awe"

  1. #11
    Senior Member mk99's Avatar
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    I must say it was a surreal experience watching it happen.

    One of the biggest impacts of the "Shock & Awe" is the message it sends to any potential enemies. We are big, strong and can crush anyone at anytime. There is no denying the incredible power of the US Military.

    I wonder how ugly things will get when some of the technological advantages are negated with urban street to street fighting in Baghdad?

    Keep this mind: Israel's Military & Defense Capabilities far outstrip the Palestinians. And yet they are not safe. You can't defend yourself against individuals willing to blow themselves up. All the technology and military force in the world can't stop this. It is only a matter of time before it comes to the US. I hope I am wrong.

  2. #12
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    Brad your post was so good. I have forwarded it to others as it is right to the point and exactly what this war is all about.

  3. #13
    Senior Member kate's Avatar
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    Brad and Shabu,

    Fine with me if you're going to convince yourselves that this slaughter is necessary, but please use the truth. Saddam had nothing in common with Bin Laden, had nothing to do with 9/11, is in fact scorned by the radical extremists who do share Bin Laden's attitude about us. I think Saddam died already. And I also think this "might is right" stuff is dangerous, because the real radical extremists are going to make a martyr out of him . . . guess who they're going to come after then? They're just as good at twisting the facts as certain people in DC. As Jeff is happy to point out, 71% of Americans "support the war". What he never says is that 40% of Americans have been falsely led to think that Saddam was "personally involved" in planning the events of September 11th.

    Why do we keep letting these people lie to us!

  4. #14
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    Brad....I hope everyone understands that the citizens of Iraq are not targets.

    The pictures of Bagdhad last night made it clear that although we may not see citizens of Iraq as targets, bombs do not look so carefully. If you drop that many bombs into a densely populated area civilians and coscript soldiers will die.
    "Shock and Awe" may be an official description; a more accurate description of what we witnessed is "Shocking and Awful"

  5. #15
    Senior Member Jeff's Avatar
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    Does everyone understand the intent behind "Shock and awe?"

    It's becoming way overused and I doubt many people understand where it came from. Military planners asked themselves how they could make this war as short as possible with the fewest number of casualties. The intense psychological campaign was born of that effort and so was shock and awe. The whole idea is to very early in the campaign remove any will to fight from the opposing forces. With all the surrenders occurring before the war even began I think the strategy is working. Since then there have been mass surrenders.....whole divisions giving themselves up, sometimes proudly marching in formation.

    Anyway, the US is doing everything in their power to save lives. I would say the number of lives lost in this war will be saved in a month by feeding the normally starving people. After a year, thousands of people will be alive who would otherwise have died if the pacifist mentality had prevailed.

    After five years, the Iraqi people will be on the road to a very bright future. The hurt and pain left by a brutal dictator will have been healing...replaced by the sweet taste of freedom.

    The pacifists would prefer twelve more years of inspections. Let's see if that's what the Iraqis will say is a better idea, now that the threat of Saddam is lifting. I think not.

    ~See you at the SCIWire-used-to-be-paralyzed Reunion ~

  6. #16
    Senior Member Rick1's Avatar
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    Kate - Sadly, your entire argument seems to be based on a sense of weakness and fear; not to mention a complete lack of objectivity. To say that SH and UBL have nothing in common is ludicrous. Their most obvious shared characteristics include, disdain of western culture, gross disregard for all human life, megalomania, murderous, torturous, etc. The only real distinguishing factor between the two is that UBL wants/wanted to dominate the world, and SH only wants/wanted to dominate the Middle East region.

    If you want to insist on separating SH from 9/11, then consider Operation Iraqi Freedom on it's own merits:
    · Under Saddam Hussein, Iraq has launched missile attacks against five neighboring countries, forcibly invaded two neighboring countries, and brutally murdered hundreds of thousands of it's own citizens.
    · For the past 12 years, Iraq has been in constant violation of a cease fire agreement and a number of UN resolutions specifically related to WMD.
    · The UN has assumed a position of appeasement, rather than enforcement, regarding Iraq's obligations to the international community.
    · President Bush's choice to act on this matter is based on national security interests and a sworn allegiance to the citizens of the United State.
    · This war became necessary because the UN failed to live up to it's own responsibilities to the international community.

    I for one am glad that President Bush has the objective foresight, and the courage, to confront evil at it's source. For any doubters, I am confident that justification for this action will become sufficiently evident in the coming days.

    In times of crisis, visionary leaders must take brave, innovative actions, often violating the prevailing rules and precedents. The impossible must become the possible.

  7. #17
    Senior Member DA's Avatar
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    adrian...i noticed when saddam was torturing his own ppl and his son uday was raping both men and women europe didnt find that 'shocking and awful'. as long as its not europe suffering, europeans see nothing wrong with others suffering. the most selfish continent on the planet.

  8. #18
    I never said nor do I believe that Saddam was involved with the 9/11 attacks. I said that he shares similar radical extremists beliefs as the terrorists who were involved with the 9/11 attacks. I'm sure he would turn a blind eye a terror group in his country in search of chemical agents to be used against the U.S. Do you think Saddam and his regime are peaceful rulers or feared ruthless leaders of an oppressed people?

    I you believe that the U.S. is trying to slaughter innocent Iraqi people, I think that you're mistaken. Will innocent civilians die as a result of the bombings? Regrettably the answer is yes and this is why I hate war. But our military and our troops are making great efforts to limit civilian casualties by exclusively using precision ordinances not random bombings. Saddam has spread his military installations all around the city, making the task of dismantling his regime very difficult.

    This war is being waged for the greater good of the people in Iraq. After the change of regime, the vast resources of the country will be turned over to the freed people of Iraq, sanctions will be gone and there will be enormous humanitarian aid by the entire international community.

    [This message was edited by Brad_D on 03-22-03 at 05:55 PM.]

  9. #19
    Senior Member Josh's Avatar
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    Adrian:
    The pictures of Bagdhad last night made it clear that although we may not see citizens of Iraq as targets, bombs do not look so carefully. If you drop that many bombs into a densely populated area civilians and coscript soldiers will die.
    "Shock and Awe" may be an official description; a more accurate description of what we witnessed is "Shocking and Awful"
    Adrian, Lets remember that these are "smart bombs". They will find there targets. There is no doubt that some civilians will be killed but the numbers should be minimal. This is not like past wars where we drop bombs and hope they hit close to there target. Now days they can pick a window on a specific building and put a missile right through it. It's pretty impressive.

  10. #20
    Senior Member kate's Avatar
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    Hoo, boy.

    I apologize, guys, for interrupting your swoonfest. I just can't seem to get my poor female head around how thoroughly effective the propaganda campaign has been . . . I won't disturb your fantasies of grandeur anymore with my silly ravings.

    You can go back to squaring your shoulders and wiping proud tears from your eyes, secure in the knowledge that if anything should happen that doesn't line up with what George Orwell Bush and his corporate pals want you to think, you won't be troubled with the details. What a comfort that must be.

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