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Thread: Them bastards, them rotten bastards

  1. #1
    Senior Member bilby's Avatar
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    Them bastards, them rotten bastards

    When the Russian war machine rolled into Afghanistan, the people and the government of Pakistan feared they would become the next target of conquest for the Soviet Union. Facing that grim prospect, where do you think they turned for help? That's right, to America. We guaranteed them our pledge of security, we supplied them with military and financial aid. We still assist them monetarily, and only recently was our military aid suspended.

    How soon they forget.

    Now the people of Pakistan are burning our flag and our President in effigy, while they shout death to America! They must believe our enemies have the right to slaughter our civilians with impunity. They also must believe that America doesn't have the moral authority to attack those who attack us. In other words, they condone the acts of terrorism and condemn our citizens.

    I say to hell with them and fair weather countries like them. We should permanently cut their financial umbilical cord, and let them fend for themselves from now on. When their conflict with India ignites again, we should applaud India whenever they strike a blow!

    It seems our good will to this Country, is only appreciated in times of need. Screw them..!..

    bill

  2. #2
    Bill, we should understand that closing the border of Afghanistan with Pakistan and the cutting off of all humanitarian aid will hurt and perhaps kill thousands of Afghans who have little or no say in the conduct of their government or the decisions regarding terrorist activities. I am not saying that the United States should not cut off support for the time being as a means of pressuring the Taliban and uproot the terrorist organizations. We just have to be aware of the consequences of our actions and try our best not to hurt innocent people. The Afghan people do not equal the Taliban.

    Wise.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Rick1's Avatar
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    minority extremists

    "Now the people of Pakistan are burning our flag and our President in effigy, while they shout death to America!"

    Heck, our own citizens do that - but, not all of them.

  4. #4
    Senior Member bilby's Avatar
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    Wise- I agree with you totally. I was aiming my post at Pakistan not Afghanistan.

    The Taliban is a gang of criminals, that rap themselves in the cloak of religion, to justify their authority. It consist of approximately 45,000 troops, that rule over a population of 20 million with an iron fist.

    Often when the oppressed are freed the liberators become the jailors. When the Soviet backed communist government of Afghanistan fell, the people probably thought their life would improve, how wrong they were.

    There is a sad truth about the whole situation, we supplied them with the weapons and skills to wage war, after their enemy was vanquished, they turned their weapons on their own people.

    The old saying is still poignant, absolute power corrupts absolutely. The people of Afghanistan don't have the power to check the ambitions of their leaders, or sanction their morality, so the innocent will suffer along with the guilty.

    bill

  5. #5
    Bibly. It is really distressing, isn't it. It was so frustrating watching television at times. I just wish that the television producers would provide a balanced image sometimes. For example, there is much discussion about the possibility that the images of Palestinians celebrating on the streets on the West Bank does not represent the majority of people there. With the country in the mood that it is, I think that television has a responsibility for providing some balance to these images.

    The government of Pakistan to trying to cooperate. In fact, the President of Pakistan is a general who took over in a coup and who is likely to become a target of an assassination attempt by Al Queda. I have a number of friends and students from Pakistan. They are not at all like the people that we are seeing on television. I agree with Rick.

    I just posted an analysis of the Al Queda (http://carecure.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28494). They are a well organized group that has many cohorts in Pakistan and they are good a disseminating propaganda. Some of these kinds of demonstrations may be staged for the benefit of American television. And, given the history of assassinations by the bin Laden group, I suspect that most of the moderates are afraid to protest. They are staying out of the way.

  6. #6
    Senior Member bilby's Avatar
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    Rick- "Minority Extremist" that's what they said about the people who hijacked the planes and slammed them into the WTC.

    Wise- I realize Pakistan has more than one voice, but it's still distressing when you see thousands of individuals venting their hatred on a people(us)who is innocent of any offence.

    The government of Pakistan is siding with us, but not out of principle, we had to pay for that cooperation. We had to forgo their debt and we have to lift the military sanctions that were imposed upon them after their nucleur testing ended.

    bill

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rick1's Avatar
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    issues of diversity

    Bill - You're absolutely right, and believe me, I share your frustration. The intended point of my previous comment was to discourage against the practice of making broad generalizations about an entire population.

    It would be nice to have the world line up behind America based on our own ideals, but the reality is that the interests of individual countries are inherently unique, and in many ways, directly related to their geographical position in the world. The concessions that Pakistan receives for their cooperation in this effort may seem excessive, and even perverse, but in the end, they need to be able to survive in a very unstable part of the world, and we (the United States) need to make sure that they can do that without having to get too cozy with the likes of the Taliban.

    I think (and hope and pray) that President Bush and the growing coalition of world leaders are on the right path toward making the pieces of a very complicated world, fit together.

    [This message was edited by Rick on September 22, 2001 at 11:21 AM.]

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Sue Pendleton's Avatar
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    I wonder why so many Afghanis are running south to where the more extreme Pakastanis live and not northeast to the Northern Alliance. Right now the Taliban is starving millions of women and girl children and not educating girls either. The boys they teach the same brand of extremist fanatasism as they live. Whether we support a closed border or not they will kill their own civilians. I just hope to see more head north to join the minority opposition.

    I just hope this can be done mainly by elite units and we won't hear about it till it's over. I hate to see innocent lives wasted over some fanatics.

  9. #9

    re-Afghani peoples

    Wise, you're so right that the people don't have any say in what their government is doing; The Afghans have been fighting for their homeland in one way or another for years, and years, and no one has succeeded in really taking them over; they're such a determined peoples.

    I saw a program on Afghanistan on TLC last night - they are living in such poverty; no electricity, water, etc; they showed a school (where they were teaching BOTH boys and girls - although in separate buildings!) - and the building was just a hollowed out shell, with beams and a dirt floor; the chairs for the children were made of lumber that was donated to the principal, and he made them himself.

    The children - well, the children are absolutely beautiful - it pained me deeply to think of what seems to be in the near future for them, and their country. They are a brave, strong, proud people as a whole; we must remember not to judge a people by their government - how many of us would want to be judged by the actions of say, Richard Nixon?!!

    Wise, your true humanitariansim is awesome; once again, you provide us with thoughtful insight into our human conditions and how to improve them. God bless!

  10. #10
    Senior Member bilby's Avatar
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    Marmalady- I saw that documentary too, it was very sad. I especially felt sorry for the women.

    If there is religion, love, compassion, or any sense of decency in Afghanistan, the Taliban is
    the farthest from them. In a Country that's known nothing but war for more than twenty years, human life is cheap.

    Rick- Pakistan is the biggest supporter of the Taliban.

    bill

    [This message was edited by bilby on September 23, 2001 at 10:23 PM.]

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